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Monodraw

(monodraw.helftone.com)
603 points mafro | 91 comments | | HN request time: 1.115s | source | bottom
1. milen ◴[] No.45038082[source]
Developer of the app here, happy to answer any questions.
replies(26): >>45038155 #>>45038176 #>>45038199 #>>45038213 #>>45038235 #>>45038370 #>>45038646 #>>45038650 #>>45039003 #>>45040018 #>>45040640 #>>45040834 #>>45042332 #>>45042503 #>>45043792 #>>45043939 #>>45044192 #>>45044203 #>>45044952 #>>45045886 #>>45046077 #>>45046141 #>>45047295 #>>45047323 #>>45062718 #>>45076311 #
2. MomsAVoxell ◴[] No.45038155[source]
Very nice product!

In the retro computing world, the use of "ASCII" to construct levels and worlds is quite prevalent.

I immediately considered whether Monodraw might be used as a kind of level editor in that context.

Would you consider adding an '8-bit character bitmap' mode, which allows for the bitmap to also be edited?

With such a feature, Monodraw would become immediately applicable to those of us building retro games for older platforms where this technique is used rather extensively to produce compelling art-work.

For context, here is an example game which uses plain ol' ASCII chars to deliver some fun Moon Buggy action:

https://www.oric.org/software/ascii_moon_buggy-2500.html

The same technique is used here, albeit with redefined character sets, to implement a Scuba Dive adventure:

https://www.oric.org/software/scuba_dive-89.html

replies(1): >>45038329 #
3. gardenhedge ◴[] No.45038176[source]
Was this to scratch your own itch or who needs this?
replies(1): >>45038231 #
4. jzs ◴[] No.45038199[source]
Ouch! It looks very sweet i must say. Having worked on a similar idea for a while as a side project, it does hurt to see something better coming out.

I hope we can one day compete. :)

Edit: removed the URL

replies(1): >>45038301 #
5. SirFatty ◴[] No.45038213[source]
Windows version in the future?
replies(1): >>45038249 #
6. milen ◴[] No.45038231[source]
Yeah, it was. After I finished working on the iOS app I was previously involved with, I needed to either find a job or make another app.

I was browsing StackOverflow and saw some cool looking ASCII diagrams, thinking to myself "How can I make these easily on macOS?". So that's how the idea was born.

I then spent about 1.5yrs from the initial commit until v1 release. Unfortunately, the financials didn't work out, so I had to find a job eventually.

But I'm still maintaining the app and do have longer term plans when my job situation changes.

[1] https://milen.me/software/clear-iphone-walkthrough/

replies(2): >>45038364 #>>45039188 #
7. shirol ◴[] No.45038235[source]
> Monodraw does not use activation or any other form of DRM. We have complete trust in our customers.

Interesting. But, why?

replies(4): >>45038281 #>>45038293 #>>45038384 #>>45039395 #
8. milen ◴[] No.45038249[source]
There are no current plans but never say never (the app is 100% AppKit, so porting means a full rewrite).

I wish I had the time to port it to all three desktop OSes.

replies(6): >>45038661 #>>45038804 #>>45039810 #>>45040235 #>>45042216 #>>45043195 #
9. milen ◴[] No.45038281[source]
Any time spent on copy protection is time not spent on improving the product for the paying customers.

I find it unlikely that such copy protection would actually convert a non-paying user into a customer.

I also don't want to make the software network dependent in any way.

replies(2): >>45038652 #>>45038803 #
10. msephton ◴[] No.45038293[source]
Cool app! What part excludes it from being sandboxed?
replies(1): >>45038312 #
11. milen ◴[] No.45038301[source]
Good luck with your project! The world is big enough for multiple products in the same space, no need to get discouraged.
12. milen ◴[] No.45038312{3}[source]
The direct version is not sandboxed as I didn't want to deal with Sparkle (autoupdater) and sandboxing. The Mac App Store version is sandboxed.
replies(1): >>45050593 #
13. milen ◴[] No.45038329[source]
Thank you for the kind words!

> Would you consider adding an '8-bit character bitmap' mode, which allows for the bitmap to also be edited?

Can you clarify with an example? Monodraw supports "surfaces" which are just like bitmaps - you can use the Pencil tool and draw on those surfaces with any characters you want (there's a palette in the inspector), just like a bitmap editor.

replies(2): >>45038521 #>>45038620 #
14. alxndr13 ◴[] No.45038364{3}[source]
you were involved with clear? damn! i was one of the first users back then, even using it to this day! monodraw looks awesome, will definitely check it out!
replies(1): >>45040978 #
15. elcapitan ◴[] No.45038370[source]
Really neat, great work!

Would it be possible to export to text with escape sequences for the colors?

replies(1): >>45040936 #
16. __MatrixMan__ ◴[] No.45038384[source]
The way that DRM and similar user-not-in-control technologies are making the world into a skinner box is a bigger problem than anything solved by those technologies.

Companies participating in that transformation don't get my money and I'm glad to know that this isn't one of them.

17. MomsAVoxell ◴[] No.45038521{3}[source]
I guess we might be describing the same thing, and I am yet to have time to download and play with Monodraw (IT policies), but if there is indeed a way that surfaces could be replaced at a pixel level, so that for example the 'A' character becomes a Pacman, then we'd be aligned.

The only issue is, are these surfaces 8x8 or similar, and would it be possible to load in a 6x8 bitmap, for those unusual 8-bit computers of the era which used them .. I refer to my favourite system of the period, the Oric Atmos, which graphics techniques are described here: https://osdk.org/index.php?page=articles&ref=ART9

(EDIT: details on the charset feature, which would be 'nice to have' in Monodraw, here: https://osdk.org/index.php?page=articles&ref=ART9#title11)

IF I can edit the bitmap and render as 6x8 characters, Monodraw would be immediately useful for level design. In any case, when I have access to a non-work computer, I hope to spend some time digging in and informing myself, so apologies if none of this is relevant ..

replies(1): >>45040075 #
18. tsewama ◴[] No.45038620{3}[source]
Adding more character sets besides ASCII and shape elements?

Having all the Unicode emoji galore as an option would be great. Not just for colorful code docs, but millions of social media content creators out there!

Brilliant app, nice work.

19. hiltmon ◴[] No.45038646[source]
Huge fan of the product, just wanted to say Thank You :)
replies(1): >>45040982 #
20. bayindirh ◴[] No.45038650[source]
Hi Milen.

I love the app, please keep up the good work. It's perfect as is (at least for me).

Thanks for all the text ;)

replies(1): >>45040985 #
21. jonpalmisc ◴[] No.45038652{3}[source]
> I also don't want to make the software network dependent in any way.

As a user of Monodraw in an airgapped environment: thank you!

22. asimovDev ◴[] No.45038661{3}[source]
as a noob Swift dev (Swiftie?) , why AppKit over SwiftUI? Maturity of former?
replies(2): >>45038897 #>>45041031 #
23. tonyedgecombe ◴[] No.45038803{3}[source]
>I find it unlikely that such copy protection would actually convert a non-paying user into a customer.

I used to think that but then kept tripping across customers who ran multiple copies of my software after purchasing a single license. I now wish I'd tightened the DRM from the start.

replies(1): >>45039105 #
24. SirFatty ◴[] No.45038804{3}[source]
ok.. web app? (not a programmer, so no idea if a web app is any different from a development standpoint)
replies(1): >>45040911 #
25. jamil7 ◴[] No.45038897{4}[source]
Not the OP but Monodraw predates SwiftUI by quite a while. On top of that SwiftUI is pretty bad on macOS.
26. coxley ◴[] No.45039003[source]
Are there any enhancements that you've wanted to do, but haven't had the time?

I'm a huge fan, and am surprised how stable Monodraw has been for me. I've kept a single, growing document open as a scratch pad for the last three years. The only downtime was converting it to the new-ish file format haha.

replies(1): >>45039172 #
27. awill ◴[] No.45039105{4}[source]
I think you're missing his point. If you tightened DRM, would those customers that ran multiple copies pay for multiple licenses?

Fighting piracy is generally not worth it. Those people would never pay, so you're fighting to stop a pirate from using it, not to get them to pay. There's a big difference.

replies(2): >>45039315 #>>45040929 #
28. milen ◴[] No.45039172[source]
The top two features I want to add next are table support and some form of auto layout (like flexbox).

I really care about stability and performance, so I’m happy to hear that it’s being appreciated.

replies(2): >>45039556 #>>45042069 #
29. MontagFTB ◴[] No.45039188{3}[source]
As a years-long user of both Monodraw and Clear: thank you for making software that is opinionated and focused on what it wants to do.
replies(1): >>45040943 #
30. wingerlang ◴[] No.45039315{5}[source]
I have had a handful of people request additional licenses (at a discount) for the purpose of running my software on multiple.
31. dheera ◴[] No.45039395[source]
People who pirate software at scale are not typically interested in ASCII art. It doesn't quite cross the threshold of business value and usefulness (e.g. SolidWorks, Photoshop) that would attract pirates.
replies(2): >>45040241 #>>45041002 #
32. dboon ◴[] No.45039556{3}[source]
There’s this layout library in C called clay which is basically a renderer agnostic flex box style layout engine. You might be interested in reading its source!
replies(1): >>45040889 #
33. Bedon292 ◴[] No.45039810{3}[source]
It definitely looks like a cool app, and I was excited to test it out, but I don't have a Mac. If you ever hit the point where a rewrite makes sense, it would be awesome as a universal app.
34. chang1 ◴[] No.45040018[source]
Great app... it's had a place on my macOS dock for years. I use it for adding diagrams to my team's internal developer documentation (mostly in a series of Markdown files).
35. MrGilbert ◴[] No.45040075{4}[source]
I wonder if REXPaint might be more what you are looking for, though it could stumble upon the OS requirements. It needs Wine to run under OSX.
replies(2): >>45043123 #>>45046891 #
36. ezekg ◴[] No.45040235{3}[source]
Monodraw is one of the apps I miss the most after switching to Windows. Would love to see it one day! Would be a buyer for sure.
replies(1): >>45041015 #
37. mmastrac ◴[] No.45040241{3}[source]
I can't tell if this comment is satire, given how prevalent .nfo files here...
38. nati0n ◴[] No.45040640[source]
I don't use the app often, but I felt comfortable purchasing because it wasn't a subscription. The few times I do want ASCII art, it does the job perfectly, so it works super well to have in my back pocket. Thanks for not going the subscription route.
replies(2): >>45040876 #>>45049347 #
39. FeloniousHam ◴[] No.45040834[source]
Just want to say thanks for a great app. It's one of my favorite tools, even though I don't get to use it that often.
replies(1): >>45040867 #
40. milen ◴[] No.45040867[source]
Thank you!
41. milen ◴[] No.45040876[source]
That makes sense - I deliberately did not go down the subscription route.
replies(1): >>45043696 #
42. milen ◴[] No.45040889{4}[source]
Yeah, there's a few such libraries that I'm aware of but I haven't had time to evaluate them. I do plan to at least look into them and make decision from there.
replies(1): >>45041471 #
43. milen ◴[] No.45040911{4}[source]
Targeting Windows/Linux/web still means I cannot re-use the sources. But targeting web might be faster in terms of development time, although I don't have deep expertise on non-Apple platforms, so I cannot say for sure.
replies(1): >>45041440 #
44. milen ◴[] No.45040929{5}[source]
Yeah, it's unclear how many people fall into that bucket. I'm sure it's non-zero but I don't know if it's worth the time.
45. milen ◴[] No.45040936[source]
It's on the TODO list!
replies(1): >>45042775 #
46. milen ◴[] No.45040943{4}[source]
Thank you for the appreciation!
47. milen ◴[] No.45040978{4}[source]
Oh, wow - so happy to hear from a Clear user!

I was one of the co-creators of Clear and the developer who built the iOS app. It was co-created by me, Realmac and Impending. I had previously interned at Realmac and had been friends with the founder, Dan (they acquired another app of ours - EventBox, which later got rebranded as Socialite).

48. milen ◴[] No.45040982[source]
Appreciated!
49. milen ◴[] No.45040985[source]
Thank you!
50. milen ◴[] No.45041002{3}[source]
FWIW, pirated copies of Monodraw are widely available, I take that as a form of flattery :D
51. milen ◴[] No.45041015{4}[source]
One idea I've been toying with would be to do a Kickstarter-style campaign and if it reaches a certain threshold, then I know it would be worth porting.
52. milen ◴[] No.45041031{4}[source]
As jamil7 noted, Monodraw predates SwiftUI by about 4yrs.

But more importantly, my priority is delivering the best user experience and that's where AppKit shines.

53. criddell ◴[] No.45041440{5}[source]
Targeting the web will remove your giant advantage: native UI.
replies(1): >>45043753 #
54. junon ◴[] No.45041471{5}[source]
nucleic/kiwi uses the same algorithm that autolayout uses. It's also a tried and true implementation I've used many times, including in console environments.
55. coxley ◴[] No.45042069{3}[source]
Both would be sick! I do spend quite a bit of time making my own "tables" and re-arranging things.
56. fragmede ◴[] No.45042216{3}[source]
LLMs make that far more tractable these days than it would have been in the past.
57. akupila ◴[] No.45042332[source]
Like many others I also want to express my gratitude for a fantastic app. I bought it in 2016 and it’s seen a lot of use since then (recently almost daily). Being able to copy to clipboard for adding diagrams in source code is the killer feature!
58. commandersaki ◴[] No.45042503[source]
Best app on mac hands down.
59. elcapitan ◴[] No.45042775{3}[source]
Awesome :)
60. MomsAVoxell ◴[] No.45043123{5}[source]
There are plenty of tools which can be used to do these kinds of projects, I'm more intrigued by the nice interface of Monodraw and whether it can be added to the repertoire ..
61. Gormo ◴[] No.45043195{3}[source]
Only three? I want to run it on Haiku and AROS!
62. Shadowmist ◴[] No.45043696{3}[source]
Buying it right now just for this reason.
63. thimabi ◴[] No.45043753{6}[source]
Agreed, but between having a web version and having the app stay exclusive to MacOS, I’d prefer the former.
replies(1): >>45044739 #
64. benjaminleonard ◴[] No.45043792[source]
I'm a big fan of Monodraw and use it frequently for ASCII assets / animations for https://oxide.computer.

I'd love some scripting features, to create and edit designs through code. But I'm aware my use case is a little niche.

replies(3): >>45044224 #>>45045636 #>>45046868 #
65. rbanffy ◴[] No.45043939[source]
Nice!

Does it support the new 3x2 and 4x2 mosaic characters (and the HP big 3x3 cell letters) from recent Unicode specs?

replies(1): >>45047417 #
66. tailspin2019 ◴[] No.45044192[source]
I love Monodraw, been using it for years. Keep up the good work!

Was going to politely ask for full dark mode but just noticed from your blog that it seems to be on the way?

67. tasuki ◴[] No.45044203[source]
I'd expect more of an introduction:

> Harness the Power and Simplicity of Plain Text

Nice tagline, but surely it's not just plain text. It's some unicode shenanigans. How does one make sure their console can display all the necessary characters? How does one make sure others can see their creation?

68. ciaranmca ◴[] No.45044224[source]
That animated ascii art on your site is really cool, something I will definitely have to keep in mind for documenting some of my projects in future.
69. criddell ◴[] No.45044739{7}[source]
Why? There are already all kinds of web sites that do this kind of thing. Monodraw's unique selling point is that it's a native Mac app that takes advantage of the Mac UI and it's done well so the UX is top notch.

If you don't care about making the best possible app that you can, go ahead and do it in the browser. You will get something that's probably good enough and runs everywhere. But it's going to use more battery, more memory, and more bandwidth and not feel like a Mac app. Plus (IMHO) it's less fun to develop for the browser.

replies(1): >>45051388 #
70. dravine ◴[] No.45044952[source]
I just wanted to say thanks for making it. I love this app, use it all the time, and the only thing I wish for is a version for Linux.

Bravo.

71. ivangelion ◴[] No.45045636[source]
You "little niche" use case inspired me, really beautiful
72. butlike ◴[] No.45045886[source]
Just wanted to say: really love the app. Been using it for years. I love the image overlay since I mainly enjoy making ascii renditions of pictures manually by hand.
73. mathfailure ◴[] No.45046077[source]
Why do you GEO-block?
74. abtinf ◴[] No.45046141[source]
I am trying it for the first time. One point of feedback, with the caveat that my only experience so far is opening the tutorial:

I immediately hate that when intending to scroll vertically using the trackpad on my macbook, it constantly unintentionally scrolls horizontally as well and I have to correct it. It is particularly irritating since there is no content on the canvas to see when scrolling.

Maybe I'm just super accustomed to browser scrolling behaviors, which snap scrolling based on initial direction.

I'm mostly posting this because its the kind of papercut that might be forgotten over time.

replies(2): >>45050485 #>>45056236 #
75. klik99 ◴[] No.45046868[source]
Nice! I was wondering if it would be good for making ascii art assets for roguelike games (for example: https://www.gridsagegames.com/blog/2014/12/cogmind-ascii-art... or https://www.markrjohnsongames.com/games/ultima-ratio-regum/) - some of the art you've made for oxide thinks it must be good for that!
replies(1): >>45053910 #
76. klik99 ◴[] No.45046891{5}[source]
Not parent commenter, but I've been using rexpaint for a while but the editor is clunky and format too limited, I've been looking at other options - At a quick look monodraw does look interesting as a more fully featured replacement.
77. therealfiona ◴[] No.45047295[source]
Any plans for a Linux version? Sounds super cool, but I can't run it.
78. cjk ◴[] No.45047323[source]
Thanks for Monodraw. I've used it for years and thoroughly enjoy it.
79. efreak ◴[] No.45047417[source]
Any more information about this? I can't find anything.
replies(1): >>45051325 #
80. zevon ◴[] No.45049347[source]
Same here. And the app itself is just so charming. :)
81. hazn ◴[] No.45050485[source]
as a counterpoint, not critique: i am a fan of this precision
82. msephton ◴[] No.45050593{4}[source]
Thanks. Then the wording on the website is somewhat confusing. I didn't even realise there is a Mac App Store version.
83. rbanffy ◴[] No.45051325{3}[source]
Unicode 13 added the 3x2s and 16 the 4x2s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbols_for_Legacy_Computing and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbols_for_Legacy_Computing_S...
replies(1): >>45054085 #
84. thimabi ◴[] No.45051388{8}[source]
I believe the attention to detail that sets Monodraw apart can be transposed to the web as well — albeit diverging from MacOS conventions.

It’s possible to make great web apps, it just takes the kind of care and dedication that @milen has already proven to have. If the web interface lowers the barriers to developing a cross-platform version of Monodraw, then I think it would be silly not to consider investing in it.

85. jefurii ◴[] No.45053910{3}[source]
The Cogmind dev made his own tool called REXPaint which is mentioned elsewhere on this page.
replies(1): >>45066694 #
86. efreak ◴[] No.45054085{4}[source]
Thank you. I was searching for 3x2 and combination and the likes.
replies(1): >>45054373 #
87. rbanffy ◴[] No.45054373{5}[source]
3x2 were more popular, used in, among others, Teletext and the TRS-80. The only place we found the 4x2s was the Kaypro portable (using the upper 128 positions of the character generator plus a reverse video bit to get all 265 combinations).
88. abtinf ◴[] No.45056236[source]
I’ve now spent a couple hours using it.

Once I started using it for actual diagrams, the issue completely faded away. Scrolling a super long vertical-only document is an unimportant edge case.

This is the god damn holy grail of ascii chart editing.

Well done.

89. myfonj ◴[] No.45062718[source]
What is the Unicode support? Namely the "Symbols for Legacy Computing"[0] (including the latest supplements [1]) with "newly available" full octants palette could be neat to get sub-character "octant pixel" precision. (And/or exploitation of Braille [2] for the same purpose.)

(Not a Mac user, so cannot try, and not clear from screenshots for me; these all seem like ASCII + )

[0] https://www.unicode.org/charts/nameslist/c_1FB00.html [1] https://www.unicode.org/charts/nameslist/c_1CC00.html [2] https://www.unicode.org/charts/nameslist/c_2800.html

90. klik99 ◴[] No.45066694{4}[source]
Yeah I'm very familiar with Josh Ge and Rex - my current project uses rex files for loading images - I just have a lot of metadata I bake in through hacky ways and rex format is not very flexible - rexpaint is great though
91. linhns ◴[] No.45076311[source]
Any chance for web version?