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543 points xbmcuser | 20 comments | | HN request time: 1.948s | source | bottom
1. imglorp ◴[] No.45037841[source]
We can have plenty of both.
replies(1): >>45037871 #
2. dvrj101 ◴[] No.45037864[source]
"Wind is a scam" , care to explain ?
3. vehemenz ◴[] No.45037870[source]
None of that means wind is a scam though. Connect your premises to your conclusion.
4. flanked-evergl ◴[] No.45037871[source]
We don't need both. We actually just need nuclear, and no amount of throwing away my tax money on wind boondoggles will change that. The Norwegian Labour Party royally screwed the Norwegians with wind, they had to make all other energy much more expensive to make wind feasible, and wind is still not feasible, everything else is just ungodly expensive with 5% monthly inflation on food.
replies(3): >>45038247 #>>45038562 #>>45041943 #
5. brazzy ◴[] No.45037989[source]
Nuclear is an outdated, unsafe, inefficient technology of the past. Let it go.
replies(2): >>45038047 #>>45038137 #
6. flanked-evergl ◴[] No.45038047[source]
False on every count. While our government piss away our money on wind, industry is building modular reactors, which will make energy so cheap and accessible that our corrupt cronies that call themselves politicians will have no choice but to adopt it.
replies(1): >>45038159 #
7. Moldoteck ◴[] No.45038123[source]
Deploy both. Wind has advantage of being built faster because nuclear industry was f-ed up. Check out nr of Westinghouse employees now vs it's glory times.
replies(1): >>45038239 #
8. Moldoteck ◴[] No.45038137[source]
It's the youngest invention, pretty safe per twh and pretty nice at generating tons of power with small footprint
replies(1): >>45038632 #
9. defrost ◴[] No.45038159{3}[source]
What's the actual hard time line and price on when, say, Australia can order 20 modular reactors and have them delivered and online?

In the meantime how many GWh of wind, solar, and battery storage can they install without waiting?

A recent detailed CSIRO report on exactly this considered nuclear modular reactors to be a dud option that kicked the can down the road while continuing a reliance on fossil fuel for power generation.

Renewables were judged the pragmatic best bang for the buck in a multi decade near timeframe.

10. flanked-evergl ◴[] No.45038239[source]
The nuclear industry was not f-ed up, western governments are f-ed up. We regulate things to the point where everything has to be manufactured in China where it is much more environmentally harmful and they treat workers way worse, but we then still import the things. It's the same with Energy, EU regulated their way into an Energy crisis and the only solution was to become completely dependent on Russian energy to the point where even in 2024 EU paid more to Russia for energy than they gave in aid to Ukraine.

And wind, even if it was not a pipe dream, does not escape this. Norway cannot make wind power feasible at all, it will never be able to do that, because even if it could in theory be feasible, which I doubt, our regulation makes it impossible even after the government has thrown billions of dollars of our tax money after it.

We do not need wind, wind is not faster, it's not better, it's not going to fix Europe's energy crisis. Nuclear can and will, but the impediment there is not the nuclear industry, its the crony European politicians that run our economy in China's favour.

replies(1): >>45038307 #
11. zekrioca ◴[] No.45038247{3}[source]
Your arguments are not coming from evidence, but from emotions. You clearly want politics as usual, with investments in a very expensive theoretical “one size fits all”, or all eggs in one nest types of solutions. You don’t even list the pros and cons of your statements. This is really bad advising.
12. Moldoteck ◴[] No.45038307{3}[source]
Wind for nordics is great because it helps reducing water use and avoid drought problems for hydro

Nuclear is still needed since expanding hydro isn't an option. And it's great for district heating in the north

You are right about regulations but even if you fix em now, framatome and whouse are just some shadows of what they've been in the past compared to current rosatom/chinese nuclear. Ramping up to the past lvl will be hard.

Fyi, I'm not sure but I think the statement about funding Ukraine is a bit misleading because EU as a whole and each EU country have different funding and budget mechanisms. Maybe I'm wrong but I remember I've read something about this in the past

replies(1): >>45038597 #
13. svantana ◴[] No.45038562{3}[source]
Norway has all the power it needs from hydro. But exporting electricity is good, since it will help europeans get off fossil fuels. And the north sea is pretty windy, so it's a good place for windmills [1]. Nuclear would also be good, but unfortunately it's extremely expensive, a lot more expensive than the windmills you seem to hate.

1. https://globalwindatlas.info/en/

14. flanked-evergl ◴[] No.45038597{4}[source]
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/feb/24/eu-spends-more...

> Europe estimated to have bought €22bn of fossil fuels from Russia in 2024 but gave €19bn to support Kyiv

Norway was never anywhere near having drought problems and what the Labour Party did has not reduced water usage by Hydro at all, they made it worse.

replies(1): >>45038748 #
15. purerandomness ◴[] No.45038632{3}[source]
It's the most expensive form of energy generation that needs to be subsidized by governments forever and ever, due to waste management.
replies(1): >>45038709 #
16. Moldoteck ◴[] No.45038709{4}[source]
Waste management is similar to handling forever toxic chemicals waste- bury deep underground. Check out what herfa-neurode facility is.

It's not the most expensive form. Some current builds are expensive, but it generally can provide for very cheap. Check out Goesgen open data for Switzerland

replies(1): >>45047678 #
17. Moldoteck ◴[] No.45038748{5}[source]
Yeah, your link is straightforward - It takes all fossils imports from Russia but for Ukraine help it takes only EU fund value, ignoring additional individual state contributions. If you add those I think the sum is larger. Not justifying gas imports in any way, just observing

Norway does definitely have problems to takle

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2022/08/20/n... https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/southern-norway-...

18. imglorp ◴[] No.45041943{3}[source]
That sounds like a political problem in one country, not a wind problem.

Wind works well, especially offshore: there are 1133 GW of installed wind capacity globally in 2024, so it seems to be working for somebody. This is compared to 377 GW of nuclear globally.

19. purerandomness ◴[] No.45047678{5}[source]
In Germany, the search for an underground facility is ongoing. They hope to find a facility somewhere in 2046 [0]

In 2024, the cost for storing nuclear waste just up until 2100 was estimated to be 170 Bln. [1]

This cost is always, without exception, excluded in the calculation of the cost of generating a MWh. It's externalized, paid for by the next generations of taxpayers.

Gösgen's open data, just like all the other data, does not include waste management cost.

Gösgen is a perfect example for how brittle and outdated the technology is. The nuclear plant is off the grid since May 2025 and will remain down until at least February 2026 [2]

Just like the newly-built Flamanville 3 (12 years late, 10+Bln over budget), it's off the grid until further notice. [3]

The world is phasing out nuclear.

[0] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endlagersuche_in_Deutschland

[1] https://www.zeit.de/wissen/2024-08/atommuell-endlager-suche-...

[2] https://www.schwarzwaelder-bote.de/inhalt.akw-faellt-aus-ker...

[3] https://www.energy-charts.info/charts/power/chart.htm?l=en&c...

replies(1): >>45069084 #
20. Moldoteck ◴[] No.45069084{6}[source]
1- no, it's not ongoing but stalled. Last year almost a billion was spent for searching. Can you pinpoint where the money went?

2- It's covered by kenfo, auto reinvested fund paid by operators. It has about 24bn. In comparison Onkalo in Finland did cost 1bn to build. A similar repository is built in Sweden in Fosmark

3- Goesgen data does include the tax for both waste handling and decommissioning, didn't you read the data?

4- you don't seem to understand why Goesgen is offline. It's not about being brittle. They installed new equipment that performed too good and they need to upgrade other connected components

5- Flamanville did cost merely ~a single year of German EEG subsidies for renewables

6- 2024 was record TWh from nuclear, for like, ever. It'll grow more, mostly due to Asia unless Hitachi/Whous/EDF will do something