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231 points frogulis | 13 comments | | HN request time: 1.117s | source | bottom
1. oDot ◴[] No.44567816[source]
There's a disconnect somewhere in the industry, because as I writer I can guarantee you one of the things readers get most annoyed with is on the nose dialogue.

My screenplays are heavily influenced by Japanese Anime (which I have researched to a great degree[0]). Some animes have _a lot_ of that kind of dialogue. Sometimes it's just bad writing, but other times it is actually extremely useful.

The times where it is useful are crucial to make a film or show, especially live-action, feel like anime. Thought processes like those presented in the article make it seem like all on-the-nose dialogue is bad and in turn, make my job much harder.

[0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igz7TmsE1Mk

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2. gamblor956 ◴[] No.44567919[source]
Readers actually enjoy "on the nose" dialogue...depending on the genre.

A drama? Biography? Subtlety is desired.

Action? Comedy? Streaming? On the nose dialog is not only enjoyed, but in many cases required. (For non-prestige shows and movies, Netflix strongly encourages the character dialog state the actions/emotions the actors are visually portraying on screen, with the understanding that much of their lower-tier content is watched in the background while people are doing something else.)

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3. pixelfarmer ◴[] No.44568222[source]
The problem is that it permeates writing in so many places. For example, games get more and more littered with this sort of nonsense, too. And worse, it is often also used as a vehicle to convey all sorts of ideologies. Many people don't care about these ideologies, but they get annoyed fast if someone shouts them into their face like a zealot. Plus it feels just fake, completely artificial.

The other problem with it: To me, as an adult, it feels like whoever wrote this made the assumption I'm stupid. This sort of writing is ok, up to a certain degree, for kids. But for adults? A lot of anime are aimed at the younger generations. Anime written for adults are done very differently.

The Matrix is heavily influenced by manga / anime, which you see in quite a few scenes in how they are shot. But many of the explanations that are done are part of the development of Neo, so they never really feel out of place.

Cyberpunk 2077, which does have on the nose dialogue here and there as part of random NPCs spouting stuff. But by and large it tells a story not just through dialogues but also visually. And the visual aspect is so strong that some reviewers completely failed at reviewing the game, they were unable to grasp it. Which is a huge issue, because we are talking about adults here.

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4. burnt-resistor ◴[] No.44568750[source]
I noticed American shows and movies demographically aimed primarily at kids often slip in cultural references and subtle dirty jokes aimed at keeping older people engaged. Was or is this still a thing in your domain?
5. burnt-resistor ◴[] No.44568786[source]
> watched in the background while people are doing something else.

There are these devices called "radios"* and this stuff called "music."

There's no point to "watching" a show if it's not being watched, it sort of ruins the whole purpose of it. Dividing attention lessens almost everything. It's like "reading" a book while moving your eyes over the words faster than you can read them. SMH. It's kind of like the cliché of the Banksy couple staring into their screens across from each other, or people who have intercourse while staring at their phones.

* That have been replaced with apps like Spotify and Tidal.

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6. pjc50 ◴[] No.44571231[source]
> Some animes have _a lot_ of that kind of dialogue. Sometimes it's just bad writing, but other times it is actually extremely useful.

I think this is going to need unpacking; anime has its sub-genres, many of which are marketed at children, hence the simpler writing. When is it useful to be on the nose? How much speaking like a shonen protagonist do we really need?

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7. pjc50 ◴[] No.44571248[source]
> Many people don't care about these ideologies, but they get annoyed fast if someone shouts them into their face like a zealot. Plus it feels just fake, completely artificial.

Unfortunately this is a real problem even if you agree with the message. People won't let a pro-diversity story speak for itself, they have to fit in a PSA like the ones stuck on the end of He-Man episodes.

Mind you, they feel they have to do that because of all the "wait, Superman is woke now?" commentary idiots.

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8. wat10000 ◴[] No.44571315{3}[source]
It's a bit odd to declare that there's no point in doing something a lot of people do, especially if it involves entertainment where the only possible point is the enjoyment of the person doing it, and not any sort of objective outcome.
9. andelink ◴[] No.44572160{3}[source]
> people who have intercourse while staring at their phones

This can’t be real. Surely no one does this. Do people do this?

replies(1): >>44574056 #
10. BobaFloutist ◴[] No.44573976[source]
Frankly American superhero comics also have(/had) notoriously ex positive dialogue. I feel like it has its DNA in classic pulp books, which, like comics and shonen, are long form stories in a short form format, which can't rely on their readers having read the previous issue(s) (or sometimes just want to refresh memories because it's been a while).

TV these days has recaps, I recently read the third book in a fantasy trilogy that tried a recap, but '"Ok, but what are we going to do about the dark lord?' The dark lord, Jathaniel, had turned out to be the actual murderer of Pomme, Gam's dad, who we had all thought committed suicide. He was seeking the crystals of wonder..." is still very common in modern books. Comics and cartoons are expected to have much less narration, so they tend to put refreshers like this in dialogue. Movies do that to make themselves feel like comics or cartoons. I'm not sure why non comic or cartoon movies do that.

11. BobaFloutist ◴[] No.44574027{3}[source]
It reminds me of the classic tweet:

'Black Panther was a fine movie but its politics were a bit iffy. wouldve been way better if at the end the Black Panther turned to the camera & said "i am communist now" & then specified hes the exact kind of communist i am'

Some writers are certainly taking cues from the criticisms that tweet was mocking. Or were the same people making those criticisms.

12. BobaFloutist ◴[] No.44574056{4}[source]
I doubt it. Though, amusingly, people notoriously put on Netflix with the intention of having sex. Though the general expectation is that they're focusing on the sex to the detriment of the Netflix, not the other way around.
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13. burnt-resistor ◴[] No.44590066{5}[source]
Yup, it was artistic license. It only happens in all of the terrible porn scenes and with people who are really bad at sex but too clueless to notice.

"Congress" is another vintage word for it. It's apropos given how the COTUS fucks around (in the present), and probably also did so 249 years ago being an inadvertent double entendre then given the making laws was and is also a contentious dance.