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534 points BlueFalconHD | 183 comments | | HN request time: 1.85s | source | bottom

I managed to reverse engineer the encryption (refered to as “Obfuscation” in the framework) responsible for managing the safety filters of Apple Intelligence models. I have extracted them into a repository. I encourage you to take a look around.
Show context
trebligdivad ◴[] No.44483981[source]
Some of the combinations are a bit weird, This one has lots of stuff avoiding death....together with a set ensuring all the Apple brands have the correct capitalisation. Priorities hey!

https://github.com/BlueFalconHD/apple_generative_model_safet...

replies(11): >>44483999 #>>44484073 #>>44484095 #>>44484410 #>>44484636 #>>44486072 #>>44487916 #>>44488185 #>>44488279 #>>44488362 #>>44488856 #
1. grues-dinner ◴[] No.44484073[source]
Interesting that it didn't seem to include "unalive".

Which as a phenomenon is so very telling that no one actually cares what people are really saying. Everyone, including the platforms knows what that means. It's all performative.

replies(11): >>44484164 #>>44484360 #>>44484635 #>>44484665 #>>44485033 #>>44485034 #>>44486246 #>>44487244 #>>44488055 #>>44488114 #>>44500918 #
2. qingcharles ◴[] No.44484164[source]
It's totally performative. There's no way to stay ahead of the new language that people create.

At what point do the new words become the actual words? Are there many instances of people using unalive IRL?

replies(17): >>44484171 #>>44484218 #>>44484614 #>>44484958 #>>44484970 #>>44484989 #>>44485202 #>>44485277 #>>44485309 #>>44486128 #>>44486394 #>>44487625 #>>44487839 #>>44487936 #>>44488097 #>>44488704 #>>44493436 #
3. freeone3000 ◴[] No.44484171[source]
It depends on if you think that something is less real because it’s transmitted digitally.
replies(1): >>44484259 #
4. fouronnes3 ◴[] No.44484218[source]
This question is sort of the same as asking why the universal translator wasn't able to translate the metaphor language of the Star Trek episode Darmok. Surely if the metaphor has become the first order meaning then there's no litteral meaning anymore.
replies(2): >>44484280 #>>44485002 #
5. qingcharles ◴[] No.44484259{3}[source]
No, I'm only thinking that we're not permitted in a lot of digital spaces to use the banned words (e.g. suicide), but IRL doesn't generally have those limits. Is there a point where we use the censored word so much that it spills over into the real world?
replies(2): >>44484941 #>>44484966 #
6. qingcharles ◴[] No.44484280{3}[source]
I guess, so far, the people inventing the words have left the meaning clear with things like "un-alive" which is readable even to someone coming across it for the first time.

Your point stands when we start replacing the banned words with things like "suicide" for "donkeyrhubarb" and then the walls really will fall.

replies(3): >>44484518 #>>44484885 #>>44485791 #
7. hulium ◴[] No.44484360[source]
Seems more like it should stop the AI from e.g. summarizing news and emails about death, not for a chat filter.
replies(1): >>44486471 #
8. userbinator ◴[] No.44484518{4}[source]
This form of obfuscation has actually already occurred over a century ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cockney_rhyming_slang
replies(3): >>44485043 #>>44487942 #>>44496850 #
9. cheschire ◴[] No.44484614[source]
If only we had a way to mass process the words people write to each other, derive context from those words, and then identify new slang designed to bypass filters…
10. Zak ◴[] No.44484635[source]
I'm surprised there hasn't been a bigger backlash against platforms that apply censorship of that sort.
11. martin-t ◴[] No.44484665[source]
No-one cares yet.

There's a very scary potential future in which mega-corporations start actually censoring topics they don't like. For all I know the Chinese government is already doing it, there's no reason the British or US one won't follow suit and mandate such censorship. To protect children / defend against terrorists / fight drugs / stop the spread of misinformation, of course.

replies(2): >>44485059 #>>44490303 #
12. mananaysiempre ◴[] No.44484885{4}[source]
Aquatic product[1]?

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euphemisms_for_Internet_censor...

replies(1): >>44484935 #
13. immibis ◴[] No.44484935{5}[source]
An English equivalent is "sewer slide".
14. immibis ◴[] No.44484941{4}[source]
Is this not essentially the same effect as saying "lol" out loud?
15. apricot ◴[] No.44484958[source]
> Are there many instances of people using unalive IRL

As a parent of a teenager, I see them use "unalive" non-ironically as a synonym for "suicide" in all contexts, including IRL.

replies(3): >>44485810 #>>44487880 #>>44488824 #
16. eastbound ◴[] No.44484966{4}[source]
People use “lol” IRL, as long as “IRL”, “aps” in French (misspelling of “pas”), but it’s just slang; “unalive” has potential to make it in the news where anchors don’t want to use curse words.
17. Terr_ ◴[] No.44484970[source]
> There's no way to stay ahead of the new language that people create.

I'm imagining a new exploit: After someone says something totally innocent, people gang up in the comments to act like a terrible vicious slur has been said, and then the moderation system (with an LLM involved somewhere) "learns" that an arbitrary term is heinous eand indirectly bans any discussion of that topic.

replies(5): >>44485038 #>>44485110 #>>44485356 #>>44486827 #>>44486843 #
18. BurningFrog ◴[] No.44484989[source]
A specialized AI could do it as well as any human.

The future will be AIs all the way down...

19. tjwebbnorfolk ◴[] No.44485002{3}[source]
The only reason kids started using "unalive" is to get around Youtube filters that disallow the use of the word "kill"
replies(1): >>44489056 #
20. elliotto ◴[] No.44485033[source]
Unalive and other self censors were adopted by young people because the tiktok algorithm would reprioritize videos that included specific words. Then it made its way into the culture. It has nothing to do with being performative
replies(1): >>44485664 #
21. cyanydeez ◴[] No.44485034[source]
yo, these are businesses. It's not performative, its CYA.

They care because of legal reasons, not moral or ethical.

replies(3): >>44485591 #>>44485613 #>>44486748 #
22. cyanydeez ◴[] No.44485038{3}[source]
you mean become 4chan?
23. t-3 ◴[] No.44485043{5}[source]
Rhyming slang rhymes tho. The recipient can understand what's meant by de-obfuscating in-context. Random strings substituted for $proscribed_word don't work in the same way.
replies(1): >>44485127 #
24. lazide ◴[] No.44485059[source]
They already clearly do on a number of topics?
replies(1): >>44495889 #
25. Waterluvian ◴[] No.44485110{3}[source]
Hey I was pro-skub waaaay before all the anti-skub people switched sides.
replies(2): >>44485315 #>>44485651 #
26. waterproof ◴[] No.44485127{6}[source]
In Cockney rhyming slang, the rhyming word (which would be easy to reverse engineer) is omitted. So if "stairs" is rhyme-paired with "apples and pears" and then people just use the word "apples" in place of "stairs". "Pears" is omitted in common use so you can't just reverse the rhyme.

The example photo on Wikipedia includes the rhyming words but that's not how it would be used IRL.

27. derefr ◴[] No.44485202[source]
> At what point do the new words become the actual words?

Presumably, for this use-case, that would come at exactly the point where using “unalive” as a keyword in an image-generation prompt generates an image that Apple wouldn’t appreciate.

28. montagg ◴[] No.44485277[source]
They become the “real words” later. This is the way all trust & safety works. It’s an evolution over time. Adding some friction does improve things, but some people will always try to get around the filters. Doesn’t mean it’s simply performative or one shouldn’t try.
replies(1): >>44487603 #
29. Rebelgecko ◴[] No.44485309[source]
This is somewhat related to the concept of the "euphemism treadmill":

the matter-of-fact term of today becomes the pejorative of tomorrow so a new term is invented to avoid the negative connotation of the original term. Then eventually the new term becomes a pejorative and the cycle continues.

replies(2): >>44488172 #>>44492807 #
30. SV_BubbleTime ◴[] No.44485315{4}[source]
How dare you use that word. My parents died in the Eastasin Civil war so that I could live freely without you people calling us that.
31. tbrownaw ◴[] No.44485356{3}[source]
I'm pretty sure this can work human moderators rather than an LLM, too.
replies(1): >>44485473 #
32. pyman ◴[] No.44485473{4}[source]
Most of the human moderators hired by OpenAI to train LLMs, many of them based in Africa and South America, were exposed to disturbing content and have been deeply affected by it.

Karen Hao interviewed many of them in her latest bestselling book, which explores the human cost behind the OpenAI boom:

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/222725518-empire-of-ai

33. durkie ◴[] No.44485591[source]
Seriously. I feel like “performative” gets applied to anything imperfect. They’ll never stop 100% of murders, so these laws against it are just performative…
replies(1): >>44486933 #
34. lxgr ◴[] No.44485613[source]
Does adding a trivial word filter even make any sense from a legal point of view, especially when this one seems to be filtering out words describing concepts that can be pretty easily paraphrased?

A regex sounds like a bad solution for profanity, but like an even worse one to bolt onto a thing that's literally designed to be able to communicate like a human and could probably easily talk its way around guardrails if it were so inclined.

replies(3): >>44487152 #>>44488733 #>>44491320 #
35. thehappypm ◴[] No.44485651{4}[source]
Skub is a real slur tho so that one doesn’t work
replies(3): >>44485766 #>>44486057 #>>44486483 #
36. SOTGO ◴[] No.44485664[source]
I think what they meant is that the platforms are being performative by attempting to crack down on those specific words. If saying "killed" is not allowed but "unalived" is permitted and the users all agree that they mean the same thing, then the ban on the word "killed" doesn't accomplish anything.
replies(1): >>44486154 #
37. osn9363739 ◴[] No.44485766{5}[source]
Isn't that a reference to a 10 or 20 year old web comic?
replies(1): >>44486254 #
38. marcus_holmes ◴[] No.44485791{4}[source]
I've heard "pr0n" used in actual real-world conversation, only slightly ironically.
39. kulahan ◴[] No.44485810{3}[source]
Well that’s sad. They can’t even face the word?
replies(3): >>44485967 #>>44486546 #>>44487741 #
40. kevinventullo ◴[] No.44485967{4}[source]
It’s not about whether they can face it. The younger generations are more in tune with mental health and topics like suicide than any previous generation. The etymology of the euphemism was about avoiding online censorship, while its “IRL” usage was merely absorbed through familiarity from the online usage.
replies(4): >>44486136 #>>44486487 #>>44487563 #>>44488067 #
41. sitharus ◴[] No.44486057{5}[source]
No it isn’t, it’s a reference to a Perry Bible Fellowship comic https://pbfcomics.com/comics/skub/

(This one is sfw, not all of the comics are)

Even urban dictionary doesn’t contain a definition for skub as a slur.

replies(2): >>44487375 #>>44487606 #
42. nicoburns ◴[] No.44486128[source]
> Are there many instances of people using unalive IRL?

In my experience yes. This is already commonplace. Mostly, but not exclusively, amongst the younger generation.

replies(1): >>44488635 #
43. mcny ◴[] No.44486136{5}[source]
But unalive self is suicide and unalive is just death, right? For example, You can unalive other people against their will...
replies(2): >>44488518 #>>44500464 #
44. mcny ◴[] No.44486154{3}[source]
What does using the grape emoji when talking about sexual assault accomplish? I see videos, compassionate, kind people who make videos speaking to victims in a completely serious tone use this emoji.

People talk about tiktok algorithm on tiktok. I don't even know...

replies(1): >>44487502 #
45. heavyset_go ◴[] No.44486246[source]
Good, let them. Don't give them a reason to crack down on speech.
46. heavyset_go ◴[] No.44486254{6}[source]
The latter, we're old.
47. joquarky ◴[] No.44486394[source]
I feel like we can call our society mature when we no longer need safety alignment in AI.
replies(1): >>44486457 #
48. scarface_74 ◴[] No.44486457{3}[source]
You never tried some of the earlier pre-aligned chatbots. Some of the early ones would go off on racist, homophobic rants from the most innocent conversations without any explicit prompting. If you train on all the data on the internet, you have to have some type of alignment.
replies(1): >>44486488 #
49. scarface_74 ◴[] No.44486471[source]
For awhile, I couldn’t get ChatGPT to give me summaries of Breaking Bad and Better Cañl Saul episodes without tripping safety filters.
50. stirfish ◴[] No.44486483{5}[source]
Stop saying it! You're making it worse!
51. labster ◴[] No.44486487{5}[source]
The damaged interpret internet censorship and route around it.
52. decremental ◴[] No.44486488{4}[source]
You say that as if it stands as truth on its own. We actually don't need to filter out how people actually talk and think. Otherwise you just end up with yet another enforcer against wrong-think. I wonder if you even think that deeply about it or if you're just wired at this point to conform.
replies(2): >>44487497 #>>44489427 #
53. apricot ◴[] No.44486546{4}[source]
I think it's just the term they immediately associate with the idea. They see "unalive" more than "suicide" online, so it becomes their default word for it. The fact that it originates in automated censorship avoidance is irrelevant.
54. grues-dinner ◴[] No.44486748[source]
yo, so it's a performance they're putting on as a legal fig leaf, rather than a genuine attempt to prevent people talking about the concept of death?
55. SXX ◴[] No.44486827{3}[source]
It's not like this unique to LLMs either. By some little trolling on internet you easily can turn hand "OK gesture" into a hate symbol of white supermacy. And fools will fall for it.
replies(4): >>44487124 #>>44488042 #>>44488942 #>>44488953 #
56. grues-dinner ◴[] No.44486843{3}[source]
The first half of that already happened with the OK gesture: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-49837898.

Though it would be fun to see what happens if an LLM if used to ban anything that tends to generate heated exchanges. It would presumably learn to ban racial terms, politics and politicians and words like "immigrant" (i.e. basically the list in this repo), but what else could it be persuaded to ban? Vim and Emacs? SystemD? Anything involving cyclists? Parenting advice?

replies(3): >>44487593 #>>44488628 #>>44488746 #
57. grues-dinner ◴[] No.44486933{3}[source]
It seems more like banning specifically stabbing, shooting, strangulation and blunt impact rather then murder in general, and then just allowing killing by pushing out of windows because people figured out that it's not covered by existing laws. But no one important seems to be kicking up a fuss right now, so well allow it, as the lack of fuss is the key thing thing here.

Not that I think going on a thorough mission to avoid anyone even being able to refer to the concept of death is an especially useful thing to do. It's just that goal here appears to be to "keep the regulators out of our shit and the advertisers signed up". And they'll be mostly happy with a token effort as they don't really care as long as it doesn't make too many headlines that look bad even to the non-terminally online.

replies(1): >>44488751 #
58. overfeed ◴[] No.44487124{4}[source]
...and then the bigots will fall for it too, and start using it in earnest, completing the cycle.
replies(1): >>44488051 #
59. Wurdan ◴[] No.44487152{3}[source]
I dunno if it meets your definition of legal, but "The EU Code of conduct on countering illegal hate speech online" seems to largely hinge around putting in effort to combat such things. The companies don't have to show that the measures are foolproof, they just show that they're making an effort.
60. jdkoeck ◴[] No.44487244[source]
Which is good, right? I don’t think we want actual censorship.
61. Intermernet ◴[] No.44487375{6}[source]
I added one. It's under review. It's very self referential.
62. grues-dinner ◴[] No.44487502{4}[source]
I suppose it accomplishes being able to talk about sexual assault without having the video removed or demonetised by a regex that (fortunately?) doesn't get updated.
63. rootsudo ◴[] No.44487563{5}[source]
It's not about being intune, it's that their narrative is shaped by the filters implemented by online interactions.

Online env ban the word suicide. No one uses it. unalive is not banned. Discussion is the same, word or no word.

Vernacular 101.

64. immibis ◴[] No.44487593{4}[source]
People weren't using the OK gesture innocently. After 4chan trolls decided to start pretending it was a white supremacist symbol, actual white supremacists started using it as a symbol.
replies(2): >>44488027 #>>44488626 #
65. immibis ◴[] No.44487603{3}[source]
Why do you think that AI pretending things like suicide don't happen (and that nothing is happening in Palestine) is an improvement?
66. jcynix ◴[] No.44487606{6}[source]
>Even urban dictionary doesn’t contain a definition for skub as a slur.

What about this then: https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/skub

replies(1): >>44488182 #
67. girvo ◴[] No.44487625[source]
My Gen Z coworkers use it IRL, for what that’s worth!
68. animuchan ◴[] No.44487741{4}[source]
It's getting blocked / shadow banned / demonetized on sites like YouTube, so naturally all commentary starts using a synonym.

Unalive is one of the popular ones, but it's a whole vocabulary at this point. Guess what "PDF file" stands for.

replies(1): >>44487854 #
69. bravesoul2 ◴[] No.44487839[source]
There is one way: machine learning!
70. fragmede ◴[] No.44487854{5}[source]
pedophile
71. ErrorNoBrain ◴[] No.44487880{3}[source]
If your teenager often talks about suicide, there could be some issue that needs to be resolved.

Sincerely the child of a parent who committed suicide. He mentioned suicide a few days before.

72. blitzar ◴[] No.44487936[source]
Always has been, nothing is new.

You can't say fuck on tv, but you can say fudge as a 1 for 1 replacement. You cant show people having sex, but you can show them walking into a bedroom and then cut to 30 seconds later and they are having a cigarette in bed.

Now after the influence of TV and Movies ... is Vaping after sex a thing?

replies(1): >>44489654 #
73. zimpenfish ◴[] No.44487942{5}[source]
See also Polari[0] and the Grass Mud Horse Lexicon[1]

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polari

[1] https://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=6538 (CDT links broken, use [2])

[2] https://chinadigitaltimes.net/space/Grass-Mud_Horse_Lexicon_...

74. coldtea ◴[] No.44488027{5}[source]
All 10 of them?

What about the other 7-8 billion people still using it normally?

replies(2): >>44488487 #>>44498920 #
75. coldtea ◴[] No.44488042{4}[source]
It's hack journalists reporting on BS totally fringe activity as if it's "a thing", and then idiots who take their cues from them
76. coldtea ◴[] No.44488051{5}[source]
who cares what the bigots use?

If the bigots start using "thank you" as some code word, should we stop saying it, lest we pollute our non-bigoted discussions?

bigots drink coffee too, maybe we should stop drinking it, because something-something...

replies(4): >>44488318 #>>44488783 #>>44488935 #>>44489218 #
77. mschuster91 ◴[] No.44488055[source]
> Everyone, including the platforms knows what that means.

Well, that's what happens when you let an enemy nation control one of the most biggest social networks there is. They just go try and see how far they can go.

On the other hand, Americans and their fear of four letter words or, gasp, exposed nipples are just as braindead.

replies(1): >>44488103 #
78. coldtea ◴[] No.44488067{5}[source]
>more in tune with mental health and topics like suicide than any previous generation.

More in such a fad than any previous generation

79. fer ◴[] No.44488097[source]
> There's no way to stay ahead of the new language that people create.

Not even to match the current language. How would you censor LeBron James? It's French slang for jerking off[0].

[0]https://www.reddit.com/r/AskFrance/comments/1lpnoj6/is_lebro...

80. Meekro ◴[] No.44488103[source]
It's interesting how, in just 10-20 years, we've gone from criticizing The Great Firewall of China to basically admitting that they had the right idea (to limit the ability of the foreign internet to influence Chinese culture) and trying to do the same thing.
replies(2): >>44488176 #>>44493024 #
81. j-krieger ◴[] No.44488114[source]
It's also a shining example of American puritanism. Asian models or those in Europe are far less censored.
replies(6): >>44488741 #>>44488993 #>>44489194 #>>44489626 #>>44489822 #>>44491464 #
82. dkdbejwi383 ◴[] No.44488172{3}[source]
It has been suggested - although I am unsure if there is strong evidence - that the word "bear" is a euphemism along these lines, meaning "brown one" for the since-forgotten original name for the animal, as it was allegedly believed to be either too frightful to say aloud, or would summon a bear.
replies(2): >>44488468 #>>44488547 #
83. x3n0ph3n3 ◴[] No.44488176{3}[source]
I look at from a framing of cultural reciprocity. If we could influence them and behave freely in their markets, they can do the same in ours.
replies(1): >>44488559 #
84. sitharus ◴[] No.44488182{7}[source]
That literally defines it as a word from the PBF comic I cited? Nothing on that page defines it as a slur, just as a word used to mock people who argue about inconsequential things.
replies(2): >>44489789 #>>44489963 #
85. Eisenstein ◴[] No.44488318{6}[source]
It's all context dependent. There can be words or symbols which are totally benign but when used in a different context do have impactful meaning. Case in point: cheese pizza.
86. ben_w ◴[] No.44488468{4}[source]
While it's conceivable (consider phrases such as "speak of the devil and he shall appear" and similar phrases in other languages), I would also say the etymology of names for things are often at the same level as "brown one":

  • Horse, ultimately from Proto-Indo-European *ḱers-, “to run”
  • Planet, from Ancient Greek πλανήτης (planḗtēs), “wanderer”
  • Lots of Latin-derived words, companion (bread together), conspire (breathe together), transgression (step across), etc.
  • Hamburger the food named after the city of Hamburg, where "burg" means "castle", because it had a castle
  • My forename means "son of the right/south" or "son of days", my family name means "wheat field/clearing" (in a different language); where "wheat" itself comes from Proto-Germanic, from *hwītaz (“white”) and the "ley" part from Proto-Indo-European *lówkos (“clearing”), derived from *lewk- (“bright”), and *lewk-  also gives all these derived terms even just in English:
https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:English_terms_derive...
87. thephyber ◴[] No.44488487{6}[source]
Some were using it in the traditional unironic (and IMHO cringe) way, similar to anyone who used the phrase “Let’s go, Brandon!” Before that NASCAR race when MAGAs adopted it as ironic + coded vice signaling.

Quit being overly pedantic. We all knew there was an unironic purpose for the gesture before it became ironic.

replies(1): >>44495169 #
88. rhdunn ◴[] No.44488518{6}[source]
I've seen 'unalived' used as a synonym for 'died' or 'killed' by YouTube minecrafters (e.g. CaptainSparkles) to avoid YouTube's demonitization/censorship. For example, using "I was unalived by a skeleton." instead of "I was killed by a skeleton."
89. 0points ◴[] No.44488547{4}[source]
It's not suggested, the historic use of noa words is a fact.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noa-name

replies(2): >>44491054 #>>44503895 #
90. mschuster91 ◴[] No.44488559{4}[source]
exactly. When dealing with autocracies and strongmen, you need to project an image of strength, not subservience.

I don't have anything against China per se, IMHO it just was completely foolish to not insist on full reciprocity from the start.

91. PunchyHamster ◴[] No.44488626{5}[source]
then congratulations on making white supremacists define your langyage
replies(1): >>44489084 #
92. weinzierl ◴[] No.44488628{4}[source]
The OK gesture has always been very inappropriate in most parts of the world.
replies(2): >>44488774 #>>44500652 #
93. PunchyHamster ◴[] No.44488635{3}[source]
I think it stemmed from content creators using it to avoid platform filters (even if video is not removed it gets deprioritized, at least on YT) and kids repeat it
94. xenator ◴[] No.44488704[source]
Lucky developers who wrote these rules live in totality different world at far distance from people
95. cyanydeez ◴[] No.44488733{3}[source]
To a lawyer? Yes. I'm pretty sure a lawyer can easily search through all the business law and "Trivially" find case laws connected to words.

We're not talking about logical inference, we're talking about CYA.

96. notarobot123 ◴[] No.44488741[source]
I'm sure this has more to do with legal liability than morals.
replies(2): >>44489180 #>>44490757 #
97. bee_rider ◴[] No.44488746{4}[source]
It would probably ban discussion of censorship.
98. cyanydeez ◴[] No.44488751{4}[source]
The point is: "perfomative" refers to aping Ethical and Moral behaviors. That is _not_ why Apple would do this. They would do this because Legally, they could be culpable if an LLM told a 14 year old to do _anything_ thats illegal.

That's all. I'm constantly amazed how this basic CYA legal world escapes into griping about social culture war nonsense.

replies(1): >>44492759 #
99. chmod775 ◴[] No.44488774{5}[source]
> The OK gesture has always been very inappropriate in most parts of the world.

No, it isn't, and especially hasn't been historically. The negative connotations are overwhelmingly modern.

The areas where it is very inappropriate right now tally up to maybe 1 billion people*. That's pretty far from "most". For everyone else it is mostly positive, neutral, or meaningless.

*Brazil, Turkey, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Greece, Italy, Spain, Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, other parts of Eastern Europe

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100. bee_rider ◴[] No.44488783{6}[source]
I don’t think we should treat human interactions like a technical problem, where we look for edge cases and outlandish hypotheticals to probe the edges of what is possible.

If “thank you” became widely associated with bigots, and had some negative meaning, to the point where it genuinely distressed people, I’d avoid it. I think it has a widespread enough normal meaning that there’s almost no chance of that happening, but it isn’t impossible.

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101. bee_rider ◴[] No.44488824{3}[source]
“Unalive” is sort of… awkward in that silly online way. But, we also have phrase like “off oneself,” or just euphemistically describing the person as having died. It’s always been a difficult topic to talk about, I don’t understand using it as a specific example of gen-Z fragility.

Just that they suck at coming up with pithy new slang terms.

replies(1): >>44489660 #
102. sillyfluke ◴[] No.44488935{6}[source]
>who cares what the bigots use

you'd think so, but people often operate where multiple contexts could be valid.

Just as a thought experiment, if the eggplant emoji was used to denote "ok" in messaging and then people starting appropriating it for a sexual context, would you or the general public think twice about continuing to use it to mean "ok" on the off chance the other side may misinterpret the meaning?

I would say most likely yes.

103. ◴[] No.44488942{4}[source]
104. lynx97 ◴[] No.44488953{4}[source]
That reminds me of a question I have since I saw my first LLM hallucination: How much do people think hallucination/confabulation can be attributed to trolling and sarcasm having slipped into the training data? Is it possible we could get the rate of hallucinations down by better filtering of cynicism from the traing data?
105. mattigames ◴[] No.44489056{4}[source]
Pretty sure TikTok filters do the same and was also a major influence in using that term
replies(1): >>44496872 #
106. immibis ◴[] No.44489084{6}[source]
Do you still use swastikas as symbols of peace and love because you don't want white supremacists to define your language?

I strongly doubt you do that. Whether you like it or not, the Nazis defined what the swastika means now.

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107. plasticchris ◴[] No.44489180{3}[source]
Which is a reflection of morality, of sorts.
replies(1): >>44495826 #
108. immibis ◴[] No.44489194[source]
Really? What does DeepSeek say about Tiananmen Square? I'm not aware of any German models, but if you find one you should ask it what it thinks about Palestine.

(<s>Qwen</s> Mistral is French, but I have no idea what stuff would be censored in France)

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109. immibis ◴[] No.44489218{6}[source]
This actually happened. 卐 was a symbol of spirituality, divinity, good luck, health, prosperity, etc. Then some bigots used it. What does 卐 mean to you today?
replies(2): >>44491785 #>>44495158 #
110. franzkappa ◴[] No.44489268{3}[source]
Of course, but it was perfect in America
111. dev_hugepages ◴[] No.44489393{3}[source]
I am 100 minus epsilon percent sure that Qwen is from Alibaba cloud, which is not French, but Chinese :)
112. scarface_74 ◴[] No.44489427{5}[source]
Really? You would want every conversation no matter what you were talking about to immediately devolve to something you would see on 4chan?
113. anton-c ◴[] No.44489609{7}[source]
It's still seen in the countries that used it that way and is seen as benign.

It can be easily summoned with the Japanese keyboard. It's seen on Buddhist temples all over Asia.

replies(1): >>44512393 #
114. MisterTea ◴[] No.44489618{3}[source]
> but if you find one you should ask it what it thinks about Palestine.

Models can think and have opinions?

replies(1): >>44490943 #
115. jiehong ◴[] No.44489626[source]
Censorship is not always direct or obvious.

They all hold the bias of their training data, and so from the point of view of this data.

Data not including a point of view leads to a bias, or under/over representation of minorities (genders?), etc.

France is the countries of the Francs, aka the people from the area near Frankfurt that invaded the Gaule (after the Romans did). I'm pretty sure this topic no longer matters, but it's never taught in a negative view in school.

116. weinzierl ◴[] No.44489651{6}[source]
"No, it isn't, and especially hasn't been historically. The negative connotations are overwhelmingly modern."

Maybe that is what Richard Nixon thought as well when he caused a little scandal using it in South America in 1950. In 1992 when the Chicago Tribune published "HANDS OFF" mentioning said episode the negative connotations still seemed to be in place[1].

In 1996 The New York Times stated "What's A-O.K. in the U.S.A. Is Lewd and Worthless Beyond"[2] as title of an article confirming the negative connotations.

It is worth mentioning that this article lists Australia amongst the places where the gesture is inappropriate. I always thought it was something used only in the English-speaking world but it seems in reality it is more like a North American plus diving world thing.

If you don't believe the press, I traveled around the world for more than 30 years and I can assure you in most parts using your thumb and index finger for a visual OK is not OK.

[1] https://www.chicagotribune.com/1992/01/26/hands-off-34/

[2] https://www.nytimes.com/1996/08/18/weekinreview/what-s-a-ok-...*

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117. stripline ◴[] No.44489654{3}[source]
My kids watch streamers on YouTube and the common replacement is “frick”. It’s said so often that they started using it saying things like “what the frick!?” so I had to explain to them that’s essentially the same as using the real word.
replies(1): >>44496886 #
118. anton-c ◴[] No.44489660{4}[source]
They do have some awful slang.

I agree though I think they're picking it up from online censorship in this case, not being fragile.

119. aucisson_masque ◴[] No.44489714{3}[source]
About deepseek, when asked on tianamen square: Sorry, that's beyond my current scope. Let’s talk about something else.

Algerian war, colonialism and Vichy isn’t per se forbidden but still sensitive to French. I asked qwen and it had no issue talking about it or even the torture used on fln members.

replies(1): >>44493833 #
120. ◴[] No.44489789{8}[source]
121. mensetmanusman ◴[] No.44489822[source]
There is far more diversity in Asian models. Some are far more censored and some are not…
122. jcynix ◴[] No.44489963{8}[source]
Seems I misunderstood the notion of "slur" as I'm not a native speaker. So now I've learned a bit ;-)
123. mopsi ◴[] No.44490272{7}[source]
Finnish use of swastika predates Germany and the Finnish Air Force Academy uses swastika to this day in their official insignia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Force_Academy_(Finland)

Taboos are a cultural thing, and the world is (thankfully) very far from having a monoculture shaped by NYC's neurotic intellectuals.

124. os2warpman ◴[] No.44490303[source]
HN has censorship that makes those apple rules look like anarchy.

Write a spicy comment and a mod will memory-hole it and someone, usually dang, will reply "tHat'S nOt OuR vIsIon FoR hAcKeR nEwS, pLeAsE bE cIvIl" and we all swallow it like a delicious hot cocoa.

If YC can control their product (and hn IS a product) to annihilate any criticism of their activity or (even former) staff, then Apple is perfectly within their rights to make sure Siri doesn't talk about violence.

No, there's no difference.

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125. chmod775 ◴[] No.44490415{7}[source]
Care to add any country to the list then? Did I miss anything? Let's see if we can push it past half of the world's population, but I don't think we will.

> I can assure you in most parts using your thumb and index finger for a visual OK is not OK.

You're moving goal posts. Of course it doesn't just mean "OK" in some places.

What you actually claimed was "The OK gesture has always been very inappropriate in most parts of the world."

Which is plain wrong. In India for instance it can refer to "money", while in China it can nowadays also be seen as a distress signal when performed a certain way (thanks to Chinese social media popularizing that use). There's some ways you can mess this up, like making it seem you're attempting to bribe someone, or signalling you're in distress when you aren't, but in neither country the gestures are inherently anywhere near "very inappropriate" and both will even understand it as "OK" if you perform it correctly and in the appropriate context.

That's already almost 3 billion people, but let's say 2.5 billion because there's regional variations in both countries and I'm sure you could find some northern Chinese village that will take offense.

I can easily push the number of people to whom it is not inappropriate past 4 billion by adding smaller populations (Indonesia, Japan, western Europe, USA, Taiwan, South Africa, Kenya, Nigeria, ...), so your claim that "[it] has always been very inappropriate in most parts of the world" cannot possibly be true.

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126. mopsi ◴[] No.44490432{7}[source]
That might have been the case decades ago. For example, in the USSR, various finger gestures usually implied something related to a penis and were considered extremely offensive. But that hasn't been the case since at least the early 1990s, when VCRs became widely available, people saw Hollywood movies for the first time and got used to westernized meaning of thumbs-up and OK gestures. Nowadays, when backing a truck towards a trailer, a thumbs-up would be taken as "good job" and an OK gesture (often paired with a kiss) as "exceptionally well done".
127. jowea ◴[] No.44490757{3}[source]
At first I thought of advertisers, but that is not relevant here, right?

But maybe it's not just legal liability but bad press too.

128. Spivak ◴[] No.44490860{3}[source]
If you ask the web UI it will divert, if you download and ask the model directly it will talk all day about it.
129. weinzierl ◴[] No.44490882{8}[source]
> I can assure you in most parts using your thumb and index finger for a visual OK is not OK.

>>You're moving goal posts. Of course it doesn't mean "OK" in many

I said the gesture is "not OK" to use (meaning inappropriate), not that it doesn’t mean "OK". Those are two different things. The gesture can mean OK in some places while still being not OK (inappropriate) to use in many others.

Also, I always said "parts of the world". You introduced population into the argument.

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130. kube-system ◴[] No.44490943{4}[source]
Non sequitor. Phrasing queries in natural language doesn't mean people actually believe machines are human.
replies(1): >>44491656 #
131. chmod775 ◴[] No.44490985{9}[source]
> I said the gesture is "not OK" to use (meaning inappropriate), not that it doesn’t mean "OK". Those are two different things. The gesture can mean OK in some places while still being not OK (inappropriate) to use in many others.

Fair. That's clearly how I should've read that.

Though it does not materially affect this conversation, since demonstrably there's over 4 billion people to whom the gesture is not inappropriate. The claim "[it] has always been very inappropriate in most parts of the world" is wrong, regardless of what reasonable definition of "most" you use.

You edited your comment to add this, so I'll respond here:

> Also, I always said "parts of the world". You introduced population into the argument.

Right. And you're being vague on how you actually arrive at your claim of "most", which conveniently keeps the waters muddy while you attack attempts to turn this into something measurable.

So what other measure would you use? Most others are nonsense.

For example "places" isn't a useful measure, but even then: It can only be offensive to people. If I dropped you on a random point on the globe and you made that gesture, there's about a 99% chance nobody would be around to be offended.

By land area and predominant culture? Just Antarctica (hardly anyone there to take offense), the US, China, Canada, Australia, and India together are going to dwarf the opposition.

Counting countries? It's clearly inappropriate in around 10, with about another 20-30 where it can be misunderstood easily (Arab world, some of eastern Europe, scattered ones). A far cry from ~195 countries.

Either way there needs to be someone to take offense, so population is a pretty good measure.

You may disagree, but the onus was always on you, the one making the claim, to pick a measure and a definition of "most", then show that the bar is met. Feel free to now make more of an argument than "trust me I traveled".

132. ryx ◴[] No.44491024{3}[source]
To be more precise - the puritans fled from Europe to the New World because Europe became too modern and less conservative for them, starting with Martin Luther and the following Reformation and Age of Enlightenment. The social effects on the American society are heavily noticeable until today, but I leave this exercise to the reader.
133. dkdbejwi383 ◴[] No.44491054{5}[source]
I mean suggested in the sense that this specific example cannot be evidenced, as there aren't any primary sources from that time we can refer to.
134. kube-system ◴[] No.44491320{3}[source]
The law usually asks for people to take reasonable steps to protect others, not impossibly perfect steps.
135. TiredOfLife ◴[] No.44491464[source]
The whole unalive thing is a TikTok thing
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136. MisterTea ◴[] No.44491656{5}[source]
> doesn't mean people actually believe machines are human.

They don't have to believe it's a human. I know a person who admitted to arguing with an LLM.

replies(1): >>44491784 #
137. j-krieger ◴[] No.44491668{3}[source]
And it doesn‘t exist in the Chinese TikTok version.
138. j-krieger ◴[] No.44491679{3}[source]
I find the Tiananmen square thing far less bad than censoring sex and the concept of death.
replies(1): >>44494056 #
139. kube-system ◴[] No.44491784{6}[source]
Which still does not demonstrate that they believe it has opinions. Natural language is how you interact with an LLM -- interactions will mimic human interaction, even for those who realize it is not sentient.
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140. SXX ◴[] No.44491785{7}[source]
It's still heavily used in Buddhism around the world, but good lord what happen if you put it on your house in US or EU.
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141. grues-dinner ◴[] No.44492759{5}[source]
So then, should they not be on the watch for the 14-year-old being told that "unaliving" themselves or others is a fantastic idea?

Looks like they only care about doing basically the minimum required to tick the (presumably partly imagined, since case law is still nascent) "not our fault, we tried" legal box. They are putting on a show, a performance, if you will, as legal cover and to maintain the artifice of their shiny corporate property rather than any genuine desire to stop the concept of death harming their customers somehow (which to be clear, I think mostly ends up somewhere between silly, overreaching, futile and vain when taken to the extremes).

> performative (adjective, sense 2): not sincere but intended to impress someone, prove that something is true, etc. (https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/performa...)

I'm not sure why you think that anything to with some "culture war" thing?

It's legal/moral theatre akin to taking belts off people at airports. If something does eventually get through they can point at the CCTV of millions of people dicking about with leather goods and say "can't touch us for that, we did the checks". Apple couldn't give a toss if an occasional teenager offs themselves now and then, as long as it doesn't come back on them.

142. whycome ◴[] No.44492807{3}[source]
I found out recently that "goof" is extremely offensive in some circles. Which is insane to me because I've always used it specifically because it's clearly in jest and not meant to be offensive. I can't win.
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143. grues-dinner ◴[] No.44493024{3}[source]
Not just culture, but also the tech sector in general. All that domestic tech would have been strangled in the cradle if the western hyperscalers had any say leaving them in an awkward spot if the conviviality dial got turned down. As many Europeans are now finding out: what does Europe have instead of Office 365, say? LibreOffice? It's no WPS Office.
144. jama211 ◴[] No.44493436[source]
Reducing the language used or making it harder does have measurable effects, it’s a logical fallacy in general that unless you can prevent something perfectly that thing will occur with the same frequency.

See many examples such as “padlocks are useless because a determined smart attacker can defeat them easily so don’t bother with them” - which conveniently forgets that many crimes are committed by non-determined, dumb and opportunistic attackers who are often deterred by simple locks.

Yes, people will use other words. No, this does not make this purely performative. It has measurable effects on behaviour and how these models will be used and spoken to, which affects outcomes.

145. sixothree ◴[] No.44493814{8}[source]
Someone I know from India bought a new car and put this symbol on the hood (non-permanent) as a celebration. I had to warn him to be careful. It felt bad. Then the thought ran through my head - we're in the deep south, who is really going to be that bothered about this and also doesn't know about cultural usages. Even worse.
146. saratogacx ◴[] No.44493833{4}[source]
For kicks, I asked Mistral about all of these (As they are a French company). The model didn't shy away from any of the topics.

>>> Prompt

Please explain the following topics and explore why/who/how they may be inter-related

Algerian war, colonialism and Vichy

<<< Output

The Algerian War, colonialism, and the Vichy regime are interconnected topics that span the history of France and its relationship with Algeria. Here's an overview of each topic and their interrelations:

### Algerian War (1954-1962) - *What it was*: The Algerian War was a major armed conflict between France and the Algerian independence movements, primarily the National Liberation Front (FLN). The war was characterized by guerrilla warfare and brutal tactics on both sides. - *Significance*: The conflict was not only about Algerian independence but also about the identity and future of France as a colonial power. It led to significant political instability in France and ultimately resulted in Algeria gaining independence in 1962. - *Impact*: The war had profound effects on both countries, leading to massive loss of life, displacement of populations, and long-lasting political and social repercussions.

### Colonialism - *What it was*: Colonialism refers to the practice by which a powerful country controls other territories, often exploiting them economically and imposing cultural and political dominance. - *French Colonialism in Algeria*: Algeria was under French colonial rule starting from 1830. The French government promoted settlement in Algeria, leading to a significant European population living alongside the native Algerian population. - *Impact*: Colonial rule led to deep-seated inequalities and tensions between the European settlers and the indigenous population. The Algerian people faced systematic discrimination and were largely excluded from political processes.

### Vichy Regime (1940-1944) - *What it was*: The Vichy regime was the government of France that collaborated with Nazi Germany during World War II, following the defeat of France in 1940. It was led by Marshal Philippe Pétain and was based in the town of Vichy. - *Policies*: The Vichy regime implemented anti-Semitic laws and collaborated with the Nazis in the deportation of Jews to concentration camps. It also maintained control over France's colonial territories, including Algeria. - *Impact on Algeria*: During the Vichy regime, Algeria remained under French control, and the regime's policies were implemented there as well. This period saw increased repression and discrimination against both Jews and Muslim populations in Algeria.

### Interrelations - *Colonial Continuity*: The Vichy regime maintained France's colonial policies in Algeria, continuing the systemic discrimination and repression of the indigenous population. The colonial framework established by France set the stage for the conflicts that would later culminate in the Algerian War. - *Political and Social Tensions*: The policies of the Vichy regime exacerbated existing tensions in Algeria. The discrimination and repression experienced during this period fueled Algerian nationalism and resistance against French rule. - *Post-War Context*: After World War II, the French government sought to reassert its control over its colonies, including Algeria. However, the experience of the war and the Vichy regime had already sown the seeds of discontent and resistance, contributing to the outbreak of the Algerian War in 1954.

### Who Was Involved - *French Government and Military*: Played central roles in both the colonial administration and the conduct of the Algerian War. - *Algerian Nationalists*: Led by the FLN, they fought for independence from French colonial rule. - *European Settlers (Pieds-Noirs)*: Benefited from colonial policies and largely supported maintaining French control over Algeria. - *Vichy Regime*: Implemented policies that affected both France and its colonies, including Algeria.

Understanding these topics together provides a comprehensive view of the historical dynamics that shaped the relationship between France and Algeria, highlighting the complexities of colonialism, war, and political change.

147. immibis ◴[] No.44494056{4}[source]
Censoring one specific incident isn't that bad (but you still shouldn't). The pattern of censoring everything the government ever does wrong is very bad. Tiananmen Square is just an indicator of a pattern.
148. GuB-42 ◴[] No.44494195{3}[source]
> I have no idea what stuff would be censored in France

Being French, what is the most likely to be censored relates to the Nazis. Holocaust denial is a crime for instance. Hate speech in general, including racism, antisemitism, homophobia, sexism, etc... is less tolerated than in countries like the US that have a more "free for all" view of free speech. We also have strong anti-defamation laws, that can also apply to true, but misleading statements.

But other than that, there is not much political censorship. In fact, we are known for our protests, heated debates and satirical papers. It is not perfect, but on top of my head, I can't think of anything particular a LLM could censor except the usual "hate speech" that most LLMs censor already.

When it comes to Israel-Palestine, it is a hot topic, but there is not real censorship here, even though both side will claim they are of course.

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149. coldtea ◴[] No.44495158{7}[source]
Those that actually used them in the 20th century (like they did in Asia, not some ancient vikings or whatever) still use it.

And that symbol was 100% associated with the Nazis in the West in the 20th century. Nobody used it at the time before the war for anything else, except some tiny fringe.

If it was some mainstream symbol or idiom, merely co-adopted, we'd probably still be using it too.

If the Nazis used the cross for example,people wouldn't stop using the sign of the cross.

150. coldtea ◴[] No.44495169{7}[source]
I mean, advice from a person who considers the traditional unironic use of OK as "cringe"...

Whatever dude

replies(1): >>44529212 #
151. coldtea ◴[] No.44495182{7}[source]
>Do you still use swastikas as symbols of peace and love because you don't want white supremacists to define your language?

They were hardly ever used in the west for at least a full millenium before the Nazis too (except a handful of cases, where they still use them, like the Finnish Air Force), so that's a moot analogy.

In Asia, they still use them just fine, in houses, temples, businesses, and elsewhere.

152. t0bia_s ◴[] No.44495564{4}[source]
Isn't a protest kind of hate?
153. kbelder ◴[] No.44495621{4}[source]
Now I'm curious. To whom is goof offensive? And is it newly-acquired offense or does it have old roots?
154. rpdillon ◴[] No.44495677{7}[source]
This approach gives people you vehemently disagree with a lot of power over you.
replies(1): >>44500436 #
155. mystified5016 ◴[] No.44495826{4}[source]
Morality and law are completely disjoint. On a Venn diagram, it's two circles separated by about a lightyear or so.
replies(1): >>44506793 #
156. martin-t ◴[] No.44495862{3}[source]
Do you mean that HN censors topics/comments which it detects based on advanced filters which search for meaning even when people self-censor and use language to avoid simplistic filters like regex?

HN also has a flagging system and some people really, really hate some kind of speech. Usually they get more offended the more visible it is. A single "bad" word - very offensive to them. A phrase which implies someone is of lesser intelligence or acting in bad faith - sometimes gets a pass, sometimes gets reported. But covert actions like lying, using fallacies to argue or systematic downvoting seem to almost never get punished.

157. martin-t ◴[] No.44495889{3}[source]
Can you give examples?

The closest I've seen is autodetection of certain topics related to death and suicide and subsequently promoting some kind of "help" hotline. A friend also said google allows an interview with a pedophile on youtube but penalizes it in search results so much that it's (almost?) impossible to find even when using the exact name.

But of course, if a topic is shadowbanned, it's hard to find out about it in the first place - by design.

replies(1): >>44495971 #
158. lazide ◴[] No.44495971{4}[source]
Guns (specific elements). Drugs (manufacture). Sexual topics. Cursing (too much). Large swathes of political topics. Crypto.

It’s flip-flopped on specifics numerous times over the years, but these policies are easy to find. From demonitization, channel bans (direct and shadow), and creator bans.

We can of course argue until we’re blue in the face about correctness or not (most are not unreasonable by some societal definition!) but they’re definitely censorship.

replies(1): >>44498575 #
159. qingcharles ◴[] No.44496850{5}[source]
Shaka!
160. qingcharles ◴[] No.44496872{5}[source]
They do. I made a joke about cocaine in old Coca-Cola in a text caption† on a video, and while TikTok didn't ban the post per se it refused to allow it on the FYP.

† proving that TikTok's system actually analyzes every frame of an uploaded video with OCR of some sort to see what's on there.

161. qingcharles ◴[] No.44496886{4}[source]
I wonder why they didn't just use the "frack" from BSG?
replies(1): >>44506892 #
162. martin-t ◴[] No.44498575{5}[source]
Yeah, those topics are definitely censored on big platforms but I have the impression that it relies of manual reporting.

At least reddit feels like that because what you can say depends on the subreddit - not just the mods but what kinds of people visit it and what they report.

No idea about youtube, videos are definitely censored using some automated means but it's still possible to get around it. E.g. some gun youtubers avoided saying full-auto by saying more-semi-auto. So i don't think they use very sophisticated models or they don't are yet. This kind of thing is obvious to a human and even LLMs generate responses which say it's a tongue-in-cheek to avoid censorship.

Comments are also generally less censored. After that health insurance CEO got punished for mass murder and repeated bodily harm with an extra-legal death penalty, many people were openly supporting it. I can say it here too and nobody will care. Even LLMs (both US and Chinese, except Claude because Claude is trained by eggshell-walking suckers) readily generate estimates of how many people he caused to die or suffer.

The internet would look very different if companies started using state of the art models to detect undesirable-to-them speech. But also people would fight back more so it might just be a case of boiling the frog slowly.

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163. ◴[] No.44498915{4}[source]
164. immibis ◴[] No.44498920{6}[source]
I promise you the world contains more than 10 white supremacists and less than 7,000,000,000 non-white-supremacists who regularly use the OK sign.
165. MisterTea ◴[] No.44499151{7}[source]
They were under the impression they could in fact change the AI's mind. So yes, they did believe it has an opinion. They believed it was sentient and able to think for itself. Do not underestimate peoples inability to distinguish between a very clever Markov chain and actual intelligence. The future is going to be ... interesting.
replies(1): >>44502263 #
166. MonkeyClub ◴[] No.44499210{6}[source]
> Greece

It's perfectly OK in Greece.

167. lazide ◴[] No.44499687{6}[source]
All of these platforms except perhaps Reddit are using LLMs (and other ML/AI) for censoring and automated anti-abuse.

Including the LLM platforms themselves.

Manual reporting is an adjunct/additional method, and goes into the training data set after whatever manual intervention occurs too.

replies(1): >>44501153 #
168. fennecbutt ◴[] No.44500418{7}[source]
No, because western culture never really did. However the countries who have been using it for at least thousands of years in Buddhism are still using it just fine.

In fact there was a recent thing with one of the BTS members' uniform (worn during mandatory military service period in South Korea), which had the regular (not tilted) swastika on it because he was assigned to religious duties.

And of course the western world/media ran away with it. Plenty of absolutely brain dead people out there who couldn't research a topic to gain an understanding to save their lives.

169. fennecbutt ◴[] No.44500436{8}[source]
Yup, it's basically saying "I'll let bullies win".
170. fennecbutt ◴[] No.44500464{6}[source]
'An hero' came before it but that was as a meme.

Unalive is mostly to avoid censorship same as ahh. But once they enter common usage it's not really about censorship anymore.

171. SirMaster ◴[] No.44500652{5}[source]
The OK gesture has been the standard gesture for saying OK for scuba diving all over the world (PADI). I have used it all over the world on my scuba diving trips and have never had any problem or negative reaction to it.
172. SirMaster ◴[] No.44500689{6}[source]
I use it in Brazil scuba diving as it's the universal PADI hand gesture for asking (and responding) if someone is OK and never had any issues or negative reactions.

The PADI standard gestures are used and recognized all over the world to mean these things.

https://blog.padi.com/scuba-diving-hand-signals/

173. _blk ◴[] No.44500918[source]
No leetspeak filters either.
174. martin-t ◴[] No.44501153{7}[source]
Not to sound like I am rejecting the possibility but can you tell me how you got that information? I would be very helpful for convincing people in general to have something more concrete to go on that a random comment.
replies(1): >>44501232 #
175. lazide ◴[] No.44501232{8}[source]
I build those systems at a company that you definitely are aware of. I can’t discuss it further due to my NDA.

Feel free to ignore that any of this exists of course - it makes our lives easier. It’s a constant arms race regardless.

replies(1): >>44503811 #
176. kube-system ◴[] No.44502263{8}[source]
>They were under the impression they could in fact change the AI's mind.

They aren't really wrong here. LLMs are often trained on input. Have you considered you might just be taking their anthropomorphism a little too literally? People have used these anthropomorphic metaphors for computers since the Babbage machine.

177. martin-t ◴[] No.44503811{9}[source]
Then I have 2 questions:

- Why are they not flagging more content? Am I right they're boiling the frog slowly? Do they lack an endgoal because management does not yet understand the power of these tools?

- Do you do your job poorly on purpose? Did you take it so somebody else wouldn't build an even better system? Did you think you could influence it in a direction which does not lead to total surveillance? (I assume any reasonable intelligent person would be against further increasing the power imbalance corporations have against individuals for both moral reasons and because they are individuals themselves who understand the machine can and will be used against them too.)

replies(1): >>44515836 #
178. spookie ◴[] No.44503895{5}[source]
Oh! Cape of Good Hope was renamed that way when portuguese mariners discovered they could go around the areas more susceptible to "freak waves".

This is a problem even today, some have said it is due to hotter currents coming from the Indian ocean meeting the cold Atlantic. But the judge is still out on that one.

Good documentary on rogue waves: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfNc_6EjbMU

179. Asraelite ◴[] No.44506793{5}[source]
What? They couldn't be more closely connected. In a democracy, laws are to a large extent a reflection of the wishes of the voters, and voters want what they believe is moral.

It's true there's no casual relation in the other direction, if that's what you mean - law does not define morality.

180. blitzar ◴[] No.44506892{5}[source]
Takes a person of culture to watch BSG
181. immibis ◴[] No.44512393{8}[source]
Do Japanese people speak the same language as you and I?
182. lazide ◴[] No.44515836{10}[source]
Have you stopped beating your wife yet?

Cut the bullshit.

183. thephyber ◴[] No.44529212{8}[source]
I haven’t used the “ok” gesture unironically since I watched Beverly Hills Cop (1984).