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The $25k car is going extinct?

(media.hubspot.com)
319 points pseudolus | 10 comments | | HN request time: 0.482s | source | bottom
1. Glawen ◴[] No.44415435[source]
Aka how to shoot yourself in the foot and hand over the market to Chinese manufacturer. In Europe, only Renault created a low cost brand (Dacia).

Once chinese brands become commonplace everywhere, tradional carmakers will have a hard time taking back market share. In Europe they closed or are closing the last HCOL factories, killing any remaining brand loyalty.

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2. AJ007 ◴[] No.44418341[source]
Yeah, a better title for the article is how western automakers are going to go extinct. Sure the US might decide to block Chinese cars (apparently the EU isn't), but they can't force the rest of the world to buy $65,000 American built cars when the alternatives are less than 1/3rd of that price.

A larger question is how much the cheap Chinese cars are dependent on a long chain of government subsidies from the mines to the local infrastructure and what happens when China's investment driven growth cycle comes to an end. If the solar panels are any comparison, the Chinese automakers are losing a lot of money despite grandiose subsidies.

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3. defrost ◴[] No.44418407[source]
The answer to your question is less and less every year with only sales tax exemption remaining as the greatest support provided.

That support did total some US $231 billion over 14 years from 2009 through until 2023.

You can see more at: https://www.csis.org/blogs/trustee-china-hand/chinese-ev-dil... (June 2024)

  There are at least two different ways to interpret the data on industrial policy support for EV makers.

  China’s trading partners could point to 15 years of sustained regulatory and financial support for domestic producers, which has fundamentally altered the playing field to make it much harder for others to compete in China or anywhere else where Chinese EVs are sold.

  By contrast, defenders of China could point out that the data show that subsidies as a percentage of total sales have declined substantially, from over 40% in the early years to only 11.4% in 2023, which reflects a pattern in line with heavier support for infant industries, then a gradual reduction as they mature.

  In addition, they could note that the average support per vehicle has fallen from $13,860 in 2018 to just under $4,800 in 2023, which is less than the $7,500 credit that goes to buyers of qualifying vehicles as part of the U.S.’s Inflation Reduction Act. 
It would be interesting to compare that to Western and US support for fossil fuel cars with substantial government support of the oil and gas industry.
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4. aprilthird2021 ◴[] No.44418409[source]
The sad thing is it'll be a slow death. As American / German / Japanese still hold cultural cachet over Chinese/ Vietnamese cars, the companies will delude themselves into going off a cliff till a new gen comes and doesn't care about that cachet and just cares about price
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5. paxys ◴[] No.44418552{3}[source]
> These estimates reflect the combination of five kinds of support: nationally approved buyer rebates, exemption from the 10% sales tax, government funding for infrastructure (primarily charging poles), R&D programs for EV makers, and government procurement of EVs.

The first two (and maybe part of the fourth) I can understand, but the rest are too much of a strech to count as a government subsidy. Every government builds roads and other car-related infrastructure. Every government purchases vehicles for its own use. Every government subsidizes R&D in new fields.

6. nubinetwork ◴[] No.44419482[source]
You can't buy a BYD in Canada, and all the current EVs are too expensive. It's better to keep buying old clunkers.
7. nottorp ◴[] No.44420588[source]
> In Europe, only Renault created a low cost brand (Dacia).

Dacia did force other european auto makers to maintain at least one low cost ish model. Not an entire brand but still. Sometimes just for the eastern european market. Skoda Rapid comes to mind.

But even Dacia is succumbing to the auto manufacturer mindset. Every year the models get larger, more default features are added and the cars get more expensive.

8. jillesvangurp ◴[] No.44420937[source]
There are a growing number of electrical cars priced below 25K euro in the EU and a few below 20K even. I mention electrical cars because that's where all the growth is. Electrical cars are now becoming cheaper than the cheapest ICE cars. You mentioned Dacia. VW is bringing out the ID2 next year. There's a few Stellantis models from e.g. Citroen. And of course BYD is now selling cheap cars in the EU as well. And those are just the vaguely European cars (lots of Chinese components involved). Japanese, Korean, and Chinese manufacturers are also growing their EV market here. Notably absent (except for a handful of Ford compliance cars and Tesla) are US manufacturers.

The article is specifically about the US market, which because of the tariff situation is becoming highly distorted. The local producers are making what are increasingly US only models that can't really compete internationally. This excludes mass produced small cars because they can't do them competitively any more as that would require high volumes and export markets. But mostly US car makers are struggling with export markets. There are a few exceptions to this of course.

In China, the competition is pretty brutal right now and it's starting to spill over to other markets. That's all about budget cars and redefining what a budget car actually is. Any export markets where US manufacturers still have any ambitions are being affected by this. BYD and other Chinese manufacturers are gaining market share (at the cost of other manufacturers) all over Asia, Central and South America, Australia, Africa, Europe, etc. Even Mexico and Canada are not off limits and these are the primary export markets for GM and Ford.

Small cars are booming everywhere. Except the US.

9. ReptileMan ◴[] No.44421347[source]
I don't know. Lately the basic expectation even for Temu Chinesium it to work and work well. So I have been taking chances on bigger and bigger ticket items that are made in china and are of good quality for a fraction of the price of the western things. Made in China doesn't carry such big stigma lately. So I don't think that the headwinds toward them (unlike everything изделано в СССР) are that strong. I mean can't be worse than a Renault.
10. conductr ◴[] No.44424667[source]
In the US, if they were allowed and priced as low as I hear they can be (without excessive tariff, etc) then I'd expect it would only take 5-10 years. Assuming they are in fact similar on quality/reliability to what we're used to. The people willing to take a risk to save money or get more for their money would start the wave, word would spread, then people who can afford any brand will jump on board as they've heard it is not really risky as they expected.

Problem is, we'll probably never let Chinese vehicles in as it is an existential threat to the US auto industry. It's odd because we allow Japanese, Korean, etc. but we have political beef with China as a global power rivaling ours.