I'd be interested to see an update to this study in the coming years. Starbucks has been pivoting towards take out and mobile orders and removing tables and chairs entirely from some of its stores lately.
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What are some examples of real third places in major US cities?
As a teetotaling atheist, I moved to Berlin for the universities and night clubs, as there are tons of social events associated with both.
Euclidean zoning is the obvious thing to do if you're planning from a 30,000 foot view, but planning should be done at the level at which humans exist!
The one and only social activity that has saved me from this road so far has been a few meetup groups that I frequent.
But in 2024, Brian Niccols pitched the "Back to Starbucks" plan, with point 3 of his 4 point focus being, "Reestablishing Starbucks as the community coffeehouse."[1] He said, "Our stores will be inviting places to linger, with comfortable seating, thoughtful design and a clear distinction between “to-go” and “for-here” service."
Whether or not that's working is another story[2]. Long story short is that Scooters, Dutch Bros. and other brands are doing drive-thru better, and cafe attendance is down 22% since before the pandemic.
Consumer tastes have shifted. And given Gen Z's preference for online interaction over in-person, I'm not sure if Starbucks will be able to steer the ship.
If I were Starbucks, I'd strongly consider splitting the branding on the cafes and drive-thrus. Keep the Starbucks brand with the drive-thrus, then try opening a few new cafes as a new brand. Worst case scenario, you rebrand those cafes as Starbucks. I bet they've talked about it.
1: https://www.cnbc.com/2024/09/10/new-starbucks-ceo-brian-nicc... 2: https://intelligence.coffee/2025/05/back-to-starbucks-long-o...
What a load of corporate bullshit. Unlike any other community coffee house, this one made almost $10b in profit last year. I wonder how much the "community" really benefits from this.
As we get older it’s more important than ever to avoid alcohol. We don’t have the organ margin we used to. All that bullshit about “a glass of wine a day is good for you” was fake.
That's around $60k per store. That sounds like a very reasonable number for an absentee coffee shop owner (which is basically what the shareholders are).
The problem with that is that the "rich enough to have no real problems" people know that for every upscale coffee shop they like there will be five people doing heavier economic activity that they don't like and because they're the only ones with the free time to care they drive the conversation and they limit it to light consumer businesses which of course can't work because that hypothetical coffee shop or sandwich shop needs the foot traffic from all the other business (that doesn't exist, because it's not allowed) in order to actually turn a profit without insane prices. And so then nothing actually gets developed in the up-zoned area and it's still a glorified bedroom community.
The people who could actually provide the political will for a proper removal or liberalization of the zoning don't get involved, because they all have other shit going on that's more important.
Also, separately, if the people you are hanging out with can’t take no for an answer, get better friends. Friends don’t pressure friends to poison themselves for camaraderie.
There is no pressure. I just tell people I come down to socialize - mostly with couples and guys who show up. I am married and no matter what it comes off as creepy to start conversations with women and often their husbands are around.
Since I am friends with bartender and people see me talking to him and it’s obvious that we know each other , it doesn’t come off the wrong way.
I keep hearing this and completely disagree.
I assert that within an hour of any location in the entire united states not so remote that supplies have to be delivered by airplane (so excluding rural Alaska and outlying territorial possessions) there are numerous third spaces.
As a benchmark I use the small town of 400 that you've never heard of abutting Hoosier National Forest in VERY rural southern Indiana that my grandparents lived in, which I spent every summer for over a decade in.
Within a 40-ish minute drive of that small town there are:
* two astronomy clubs: Evansville Astronomical Society and Louisville Astronomical Society
* two amateur radio clubs: Clark County Amateur Radio Club and Bullitt Amateur Radio Society
* four public libraries: Crawford, Paoli, Harrison County, Washington Carnegie. The closest library (15 minutes) has a makerspace with an Epilog laser, Brother Needle Embroidery Machine, Roland Large Format Printer, BambuLabs Carbon 3d Printer, Elegoo Saturn SLA 3d Printer, Cricut, Sewing machine, and Serger. If you're like me and didn't know what a Serger is, it is a machine that sews borders and embroidery onto things.
Plus an Anime & Manga club (in rural southern indiana!??!) scrapbooking, sewing, and multiple book clubs.
* five conservation clubs: Duff, Huntingburg, Mariah Hill, Livonia, and Schnellville (these are shooting, fishing, and hiking clubs in case you're not aware)
* too many to list civic organizations like rotary clubs, elks, masons, veterans, and other civic clubs
* a volunteer fire department in every county and most medium-sized towns (all of which need members ALL of the time)
There is even a small community-run performing arts center if you want to audition for plays, hold a performance, or be a volunteer crewmember: https://www.hayswoodtheatre.org/support-hayswood
All of this in rural, impoverished, isolated Southern Indiana where the Amish and Mennonites own all of the stores, the grain drying bins of neighboring farms keep you up at night, and cellphone coverage tapers off to a teasing and deceptive worse than nothing.
I am a middle-aged man.
I take the middle-aged man loneliness epidemic very seriously.
I am also a bit of a dick: get off your fucking phone and Xbox, quit bitching about the lack of "third places", and go out and do something.
There is a group, doing something, who wants you to join them in every county of every state of the entire United States.
You are not suffering from a lack of opportunities; you are suffering from a lack of imagination and motivation.
Currently markets are not maximizing value for all participants, only the wealthiest and owners, so frankly I don't think anyone should give a damn about them
"Labour Buyers" should be counting their blessings if workers just unionize right now
> I am also a bit of a dick
With an attitude like this, you realize you're part of the male loneliness problem, right?
How many times do people show up to your clubs and organizations one time and then never show up again?
Think on it
A big part of the "male loneliness epidemic" is that a lot of men are huge assholes for no reason
I say this not to defend the self-confessed dick, but to encourage everyone else to show up to stuff. People are nicer when they're hanging out and doing something they love.
The first politician to offer $1 trillion in federal assistance to middle/lower classes (free healthcare, free university/vocational training, public housing, public jobs) will absolutely control the electorate at both sides of the aisles.
Remember that redistribution of wealth are very popular American activities. It swings both ways.
The world doesn’t really work that way anymore. Also this only works if you want to hang out in third places with retirees.
(For instance, amateur radio is dying out because most of the oldtimers are dying off and not being replaced because everyone uses the internet now. I got some great deals on equipment from estate sales as a result.)
Also, third places are places. You listed groups. Groups need places to gather, and people who want to go to third places need places that are always places, not just an hour or two on the third saturday of the month. That’s not enough for social cohesion.
There maybe is an old European style of coffeehouses but nut sure that's been hit on beyond a very local level.