Most active commenters
  • lazyeye(16)
  • sorcerer-mar(5)
  • const_cast(5)
  • shadowgovt(5)
  • immibis(3)
  • nailer(3)

←back to thread

523 points sva_ | 52 comments | | HN request time: 3.333s | source | bottom
Show context
Zaheer ◴[] No.44314495[source]
Original DHS Announcement on Social Media Screening: https://www.uscis.gov/newsroom/news-releases/dhs-to-begin-sc...

State Dept on what is considered Antisemitism: https://www.state.gov/defining-antisemitism/

These definitions are intentionally broad and designed to censor criticism of Israel. You have more freedom to criticize the US Government than to criticize a foreign country.

replies(13): >>44314526 #>>44314820 #>>44315087 #>>44315104 #>>44315309 #>>44315447 #>>44315680 #>>44316478 #>>44316738 #>>44318457 #>>44319156 #>>44322666 #>>44327381 #
WatchDog ◴[] No.44315447[source]
Wow these are incredibly broad, in particular:

> Accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations.

There are plenty of dual citizens that would proudly admit that their first loyalty is to Israel.

Other examples from the document use the term "Jews as a people", whereas this example seems to apply to accusing any individual.

Although perhaps a generous interpretation of the example, is that it excludes Israeli dual citizens, because Israel would be one of "their own nations"

replies(11): >>44315473 #>>44315607 #>>44316273 #>>44316424 #>>44316880 #>>44316897 #>>44317292 #>>44318124 #>>44318487 #>>44323278 #>>44323640 #
1. lazyeye ◴[] No.44316897[source]
It's all so confusing. Defending Jewish people is very unexpected behaviour for someone, who we've been told for years now, is a nazi...
replies(7): >>44317075 #>>44317106 #>>44317174 #>>44317278 #>>44318053 #>>44321937 #>>44336878 #
2. immibis ◴[] No.44317106[source]
A common misconception. Hitler was a big supporter of creating Israel (which didn't exist at the time) too. Why? Because the point of Israel was to make the Jews go far away from Europe, where Hitler didn't want them to be.
replies(1): >>44317288 #
3. lazyeye ◴[] No.44317225[source]
Either that or what you are saying is complete nonsense and is much more a rationalisation of your own beliefs than a reflection of anyone elses..
replies(1): >>44318567 #
4. viraptor ◴[] No.44317278[source]
It's just convenient right now, not a part of ideology of protecting minorities. Consider how this is effectively a type of targeted affirmative action just a short time after all dei was the devil and had to be erased. If Israel does something the gov doesn't support, I expect all of this to go away.
replies(1): >>44407397 #
5. lazyeye ◴[] No.44317288[source]
So ummm..are you saying Trump is defending the Jewish state so that eventually all the Jewish people in the US can be moved there? Trying to understand your logic here...
replies(1): >>44317847 #
6. lazyeye ◴[] No.44317386[source]
Yes I think they like to camouflage a very basic, garden variety hatred behind a cloak of supposed "virtue" but really they are just haters, plain and simple.

They accuse others of being nazis so that they themselves can be nazis.

Some interesting maps thankyou.

replies(1): >>44318615 #
7. throwaway290 ◴[] No.44317446[source]
People who think Israel is white probably never been there. Similar about apartheid, if you look at actual laws quoted as evidence of apartheid they don't come close to places like Saudi Arabia or Malaysia and honestly a bunch of other countries who have their own laws of return/restricted citizenship/political representation/cultural representation etc (even South Korea has it all)

But obviously this is not an excuse for Israel government supporting religious orthodox extremists and their settlements and aggression against Muslims in the area near Jordan. If you just take the situation there then it is basically a war zone.

If West Bank was considered part of Israel then I can see elements of apartheid but people who say it's apartheid also say West Bank is a separate country. You can't have apartheid in another country. Call it invasion/occupation or apartheid, but pick one? (Also yes this is whataboutism but what Russia is doing is orders of magnitude worse if invasions are considered.)

replies(2): >>44318271 #>>44318545 #
8. assbuttbuttass ◴[] No.44317847{3}[source]
I don't think Trump personally is anti-semetic. But it's pretty common for right-wingers, even neo-Nazis, to support Israel because of the argument "The Jews get to have a state to call their home, why not Whites?"
replies(1): >>44321231 #
9. sofixa ◴[] No.44318053[source]
That's because people confuse generic fascism with nazism. A big part of the difference is the virulent antisemitism.

Trump and his friends are fascists (corporatism, corruption, strongman rule, us vs them with human rights abuses vs the "them", etc).

replies(1): >>44321914 #
10. ItCouldBeWorse ◴[] No.44318271{3}[source]
I think Netanyahu is not certain of the left/international part of his population. They would likely abandon israel if things got to bad (which they tend to do in that neighborhood)- he sort of uses the senseless hatred of the arabs worldwide as a sort of kadyrite barrier troop- if you cant go anywhere and be save- might as well stay in israel.
11. nailer ◴[] No.44318545{3}[source]
Absolutely this. I have a strong left leaning Irish family and believed the apartheid hoax for most of my life. It’s absolutely false. Arabs in Israel have a great life.
replies(2): >>44318918 #>>44321087 #
12. sorcerer-mar ◴[] No.44318567{3}[source]
Trump likes Israel because the GOP likes Israel. The GOP likes Israel because they believe it's important to ushering in the endtimes.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/ZboeOkG9e0E

replies(1): >>44321947 #
13. ItCouldBeWorse ◴[] No.44318615{3}[source]
I think its a real interesting challenge, from a hacker perspective. How do you bootstrap a culture, that spirals into this minima, to recover and redevelop a interest in science and cultural development, without external intervention or enforcement. You only have the Robinson Crusoe elements you start out with and the technology and external culture that is not actively rejected by maximum religious fervor. If all other parts of humanity got stuck in this mindset, how could a open culture redevelop from this? Its really tough, i bow my head to the Houdini who pulls it off. Like - can you school a child, without school, only on youtube videos - or with some teacher LLM, downloaded to an illegal phone, smuggled in and only capable to run during the day on some battered solar.
14. throwaway290 ◴[] No.44318918{4}[source]
For me I have been to Israel end of covid before I heard apartheid accusations. I talked to Arabs there and honestly if I was offered to swap my Russian rights with rights of Arab in Israel I would go for it. I mean healthcare alone... When I looked up the allegations it appears that most alleged "apartheid" laws were common to other countries, so why double standard.

It sort of made sense if I thought just of West Bank. One reason, freedom of movement. I did not see from the inside but from what I read it is semi closed like a warzone with checkpoints and all. What's worse is that it is supposed to be closed for everybody but allegedly it is not equal and Israel military tolerates Jews but can be way overly strict to Muslims. Some people mad at Netanyahu for it.

But it's a weird limbo, people say it's apartheid and then the same people also say it's occupied and not really part of Israel. (Except for people who also say Israel shouldn't exist but I wouldn't listen to them, because then why a shitton of militant Muslim countries are allowed to exist right there but Israel isn't considering it is much more democratic and Jews were there as early if not earlier than Muslims)

15. FirmwareBurner ◴[] No.44321231{4}[source]
>But it's pretty common for right-wingers, even neo-Nazis, to support Israel because of the argument "The Jews get to have a state to call their home, why not Whites?"

It really isn't. Where did you get that information?

replies(1): >>44321957 #
16. lazyeye ◴[] No.44321914[source]
I dunno...the Dems campaign funds were 3 times the Republicans at the last election so the corporate donors were very much on their side.

And the corruption within USAID was off the charts..billions of dollars shovelled out the door to Democrat friends.

The bypassing of the first amendment by pressuring social media companies to self-censor.

And the weaponisation of the legal system to take out a political opponent.

I think your description far more accurately describes the Democrats than the Republicans.

replies(2): >>44322186 #>>44327016 #
17. const_cast ◴[] No.44321937[source]
When people say that Trump is a Nazi, they mean in the fascist "enemy from within" type of way. As in they're using Nazi as a drop-in for fascist because Nazi Germany was the most popular fascist nation that everyone knows.

They probably shouldn't do that and should just say fascist.

replies(1): >>44322033 #
18. lazyeye ◴[] No.44321947{4}[source]
More nonsense.
replies(2): >>44322412 #>>44324631 #
19. const_cast ◴[] No.44321957{5}[source]
From right-wingers and neo-nazis. There's a big overlap between Zionism and right-wing ideology.
replies(2): >>44322071 #>>44322104 #
20. lazyeye ◴[] No.44322033[source]
Yes I guess nazis were the "most popular fascist nation". Interestingly there were alot of themes in nazi ideology that could almost be considered left-wing. They believed in the dignity of the German working class man for example and that the Jewish people represented big business and were a corruption on society etc.
replies(3): >>44322120 #>>44324640 #>>44328685 #
21. lazyeye ◴[] No.44322071{6}[source]
There's a big overlap between Nazism and Zionism?

It's really hard to keep up.

replies(1): >>44322116 #
22. const_cast ◴[] No.44322116{7}[source]
Believe it or not, yes. It's specified above but yes, Adolf Hitler was a Zionist.

The fallacy here is thinking Judaism and Zionism are related. They're not at all. I would wager most Jews worldwide are not Zionists. What Zionism is is the belief that Jews are entitled to a Jewish Ethnostate and they may create that state through violence and colonialism.

replies(1): >>44323501 #
23. const_cast ◴[] No.44322120{3}[source]
Okay, whatever.
replies(1): >>44323496 #
24. const_cast ◴[] No.44322141{7}[source]
Feel free to look up the Haavara Agreement.
replies(1): >>44322422 #
25. sofixa ◴[] No.44322186{3}[source]
> the Dems campaign funds were 3 times the Republicans at the last election so the corporate donors were very much on their side.

I'm not going to fact check that because it's probably wrong, but regardless, it doesn't matter.

Trump literally appointed a billionaire to be a minister of his, after said billionaire spent hundreds of millions on his campaign. Same billionaire also has government contracts, was in charge of "optimising" government spending. Oh and he runs a social media with blatant censorship. Trump had a coronation event where billionaires had to donate big sums of money to be able to attend. He launched shitcoins and collectibles and a fucking mobile phone.

Nothing any recent politician in any western country has done comes even close to this level of brazen corruption. Hell, well known corrupt autocrats like Putin are more delicate in public about their corruption.

> And the corruption within USAID was off the charts..billions of dollars shovelled out the door to Democrat friends

Like preventing HIV from being transmitted to babies in Africa? Darn Democratic HIV infected babies!

26. sorcerer-mar ◴[] No.44322412{5}[source]
Video of a sitting US Senator, one of the most prominent leaders in the entire GOP, saying he supports Israel because his magical book tells him to.

"more nonsense"

Great rebuttal.

27. FirmwareBurner ◴[] No.44322422{8}[source]
Who said neo Nazis today are defined by an agreement from the 1930s? Hitler and Nazi Germany made many agreements. They also had one with Russia, and we all know how that went. So your info on neo nazis is way off.
replies(1): >>44325302 #
28. nailer ◴[] No.44322433{5}[source]
I comment on many topics, including distributed systems, node.js, Linux, low latency topics, software licensing, and yes science, history, the law and politics.

I don’t think I’m particularly pro-Israel, but since HN seems fixated with this particular conflict over others I certainly post in those submissions - just like everyone can see you do. This unnecessary personal attack is completely off topic (you’re responding to a post about me realising I believed in a myth about Israel) and easily proven false by looking at my post history - and also yours.

replies(1): >>44325291 #
29. lazyeye ◴[] No.44323496{4}[source]
Yep exactly, whatever....
30. lazyeye ◴[] No.44323501{8}[source]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WboggjN_G-4
31. shadowgovt ◴[] No.44324631{5}[source]
I wish it were. Some reading on the topic:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominion_theology

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Mountain_Mandate

Worth noting: Senator Ted Cruz's father is a pastor and follows this ideology. There's a pretty good article on the topic:

https://www.christiancentury.org/article/features/quiet-rise...

And the Dominionists require Israel to be strong because Jews rebuilding the temple is part of their apocalyptic beliefs.

https://sojo.net/articles/evangelical-support-israel-fueled-...

replies(1): >>44325294 #
32. shadowgovt ◴[] No.44324640{3}[source]
Indeed. Their socialist program was left-wing... But it was socialism only for the people they considered actually people. That'd be the key difference between Nazi beliefs and any modern democratic socialism.
replies(1): >>44325295 #
33. immibis ◴[] No.44325291{6}[source]
Your comment history doesn't lie - it shows you mostly comment about political things and always from a conservative perspective.
replies(1): >>44327068 #
34. lazyeye ◴[] No.44325294{6}[source]
Ugh...most of the Democrats are foot fetishists. I wish it were not true but here's proof:-

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foot_fetishism

replies(3): >>44326919 #>>44327027 #>>44327036 #
35. lazyeye ◴[] No.44325295{4}[source]
So both different forms of socialism then....
replies(1): >>44326904 #
36. immibis ◴[] No.44325302{9}[source]
That's really interesting because when someone uses one definition of neonazi as anyone who supports the extermination of a race, as well as getting obsessed with transgenderism and so on, they get shouted down with "no, Nazis are members of Hitler's party" but now someone is defining them as members of Hitler's party and you're shouting them down by saying the modern definition is different.
37. shadowgovt ◴[] No.44326904{5}[source]
In the sense that salmon and rat poison are both different sources of vitamin D3, sure.
replies(1): >>44330378 #
38. shadowgovt ◴[] No.44326919{7}[source]
I appreciate the definition page. Were there additional links you intended to provide indicating the relationship to Democrats? I did provide additional links indicating the relationship between the Republican party and Dominionism; do you have any questions on them I could address?
39. sorcerer-mar ◴[] No.44327016{3}[source]
> And the corruption within USAID was off the charts..billions of dollars shovelled out the door to Democrat friends.

Please share evidence. Links to X of people simply stating the same thing does not count as evidence.

> The bypassing of the first amendment by pressuring social media companies to self-censor.

The platforms never claimed to be coerced, the platforms themselves said in court filings they were not coerced, SCOTUS determined they were not coerced.

The actual way this played out was that random crybabies on the Internet were sad their posts were moderated, so they complained to the courts that the government pressured the platforms. The platforms responded "no, we did that because you broke our ToS."

Here's Twitter's own lawyer in their legal filing on the matter:

> Such requests to do more to stop the spread of false or misleading COVID-19 information, untethered to any specific threat or requirement to take any specific action against plaintiffs is permissible persuasion, and not state action... as [SCOTUS] previously held, government actors are free to urge private parties to take certain actions or criticize others without giving rise to state action. The evidence provided does not support a plausible inference of state action because they suggest neither the degree of deep public, private entwinement necessary for joint action, nor the kind of threatened sanction necessary for coercion.

And here are Zuckerberg's own words:

> Ultimately it was our decision whether or not to take content down and we own our decisions.

Both platforms receive millions of government requests per year, the vast majority of which (from the US government) they are free to decline and frequently do decline.

> And the weaponisation of the legal system to take out a political opponent.

The entire purpose of a legal system is to "take out" criminals. Do you think running for office somehow gives someone criminal immunity? That has to be one of the dumbest ideas I've ever heard in my life, and I've heard some astoundingly stupid ones!

replies(1): >>44407439 #
40. ◴[] No.44327027{7}[source]
41. sorcerer-mar ◴[] No.44327036{7}[source]
I like that your comments and counterarguments are so asinine as to thoroughly discredit yourself and your worldview, but not so asinine as to hide the evidence by getting it flagged.

It's a delicate balance and I'm glad you can strike it so consistently.

replies(1): >>44330389 #
42. nailer ◴[] No.44327068{7}[source]
No it doesn’t. That’s why I referenced it, as well as your comment history (which includes you spreading a conspiracy theory about a dictatorship in the United States) in the comment you’re replying to.

I think your main issue seems to be that I don’t agree with you on Middle Eastern history, science, law and social matters.

43. corimaith ◴[] No.44328685{3}[source]
New-Left/Progressives are influenced by Carl Schmitt and his views on power that the Right also draws from. It's one of the key distinctions from Liberals who reject him entirely.
44. lazyeye ◴[] No.44330378{6}[source]
Thats a good analogy...they both certainly are poison.
replies(1): >>44330635 #
45. lazyeye ◴[] No.44330389{8}[source]
Whoosh....straight over your head...
replies(1): >>44330984 #
46. shadowgovt ◴[] No.44330635{7}[source]
What, salmon and rat poison?
replies(1): >>44339858 #
47. sorcerer-mar ◴[] No.44330984{9}[source]
Keep it up!
48. _pigpen__ ◴[] No.44336878[source]
It's pretty simple, Trump hates Muslims more than he hates Jews ("Fine people on both sides", Kanye & Feuntes, cancelling funding for domestic anti-semitism programs...). This is the Muslim ban under a different guise.
replies(1): >>44407348 #
49. yencabulator ◴[] No.44339858{8}[source]
Now I'm wondering how many micromorts is 1 salmon?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micromort

50. lazyeye ◴[] No.44407348[source]
Yes I guess it is pretty simple in your mind.
51. lazyeye ◴[] No.44407397[source]
Not sure how much value your "expectations" have but thanks for sharing...
52. ◴[] No.44407439{4}[source]