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69 points robaato | 34 comments | | HN request time: 1.193s | source | bottom
1. threeducks ◴[] No.44083409[source]
> But we have two Echo devices in our household and the data shows whether a request came from the Echo Plus in the kitchen or the original Echo on our daughter Coco’s bedside table, where it has sat since around her ninth birthday. [...] So I now know that it was Coco who wanted to know what it is to be omnisexual and what omniscient means.

Doesn't it feel wrong to the author to snoop through that private information? And publishing it in a news article definitely crosses a line.

replies(6): >>44083537 #>>44083667 #>>44083719 #>>44083814 #>>44083873 #>>44083895 #
2. thrance ◴[] No.44083537[source]
I mean, so is committing every sound ever heard through that microphone to a database used to train a voodoo doll of their daughter to better guess what she might be able to buy next.
replies(1): >>44083825 #
3. tocs3 ◴[] No.44083667[source]
Doesn't it feel wrong to the author to snoop through that private information?

It feels a little strange at first but I suspect (correctly or not) that he has sought and received permission from the daughter first. Although I did not see any direct statement. The daughter is 18 or so now (maybe, adding up the times).

The article is as much about the humdrumness of family life as about what Alexa and Amazon hears. I am glad I read it. Puts life (and some parts of technology in perspective).

replies(2): >>44083761 #>>44085926 #
4. pessimizer ◴[] No.44083719[source]
That private information is currently in the possession of an online bookstore, and he is her father.
replies(1): >>44083843 #
5. Ylpertnodi ◴[] No.44083761[source]
>It feels a little strange at first but I suspect (correctly or not) that he has sought and received permission from the daughter first.

.

6. jxjnskkzxxhx ◴[] No.44083825[source]
Oh shit.... I never realized until now that's exactly what the point of Alexa is. I thought the point was like a different UI to Amazon. As in "being able to buy by clicking OR sounding must lead to a strictly larger number of sales than being able to buy by clicking only". So you can imagine my confusion on people telling me that Alexa isn't a good UI.

Of course. The point is to snoop on people to make better "recommendations". Dystopian.

replies(3): >>44083858 #>>44083870 #>>44084102 #
7. dotancohen ◴[] No.44083843[source]
Next time I need a facade for a society-wide surveillance system, bookstore it will be.
replies(2): >>44083882 #>>44084106 #
8. techjamie ◴[] No.44083858{3}[source]
It can be both. Saying "Alexa, buy eggs" is a lot quicker and easier than loading up Amazon, finding the eggs you like which will probably be the top result for you, and clicking buy (or even Buy Now). Instead, it already knows your preferences in eggs anyway, so just by telling it, you can impulsively buy the eggs without even stopping what you're doing.

Then they get all that juicy "accidental activation" data on top of that.

replies(3): >>44083888 #>>44084075 #>>44084114 #
9. Flemlo ◴[] No.44083870{3}[source]
That's not necessarily true.

Amazon is also a ecosystem. Alexa shows you notifications from Amazon like the status of a delivery. It's able to call others (great for family).

Amazon has also the fire kid tablet, fire TV etc.

And if I already use Amazon anyway I'm quite happy if Amazon would recommend me good products I like.

For plenty of things, Alexa is a very good UI.

replies(1): >>44084248 #
10. daveguy ◴[] No.44083873[source]
Two questions,

1) What sensitive information was published in this article besides some superficial listening preferences and some Alexa interactions we have all had? I'm not sure identifying the extent of the use of the prefix "omni" is particularly sensitive information. It's not like anyone was divulging personal preference by asking for definitions.

2) What makes you think the author didn't run it by their family before submitting the story?

replies(1): >>44083984 #
11. daveguy ◴[] No.44083882{3}[source]
Bezos thanks you for your acknowledgement and service.
12. daveguy ◴[] No.44083888{4}[source]
If only Alexa could be trusted to buy something as seemingly simple as eggs.
13. johnea ◴[] No.44083895[source]
> Doesn't it feel wrong to the author to snoop through that private information? And publishing it in a news article definitely crosses a line.

Well of course, only Amazon should have this info 8-/

This whole thing is truly disturbing.

And the millennial expectation that "OF COURSE the monopolistic corps should know everything", is by far the most disturbing part of all.

When in the next decade or two, people find themselves truly and irreversibly f_cked by corporate over-dominance, it will largely be their own fault...

replies(2): >>44084043 #>>44084064 #
14. dingnuts ◴[] No.44083896[source]
There are a million places she could have overheard it. Our society is having a long conflict over sexual identities and the word may have come from any number of sources.

> What is this marketing, why is it happening, and is it widely accepted in that society?

What?

15. add-sub-mul-div ◴[] No.44083937[source]
What you're missing is that people with a sexuality (or some other identity) different from yours exist in the world and don't need to hide themselves.

Your discomfort or offense makes you think that someone encountering a word means that it was "marketed" to them as opposed to that concept simply existing in society, where others will encounter it. Because identities other than yours can exist equally openly to yours. Without their acceptance needing to be justified to you.

The piece of the puzzle you're missing is that a child understanding what homosexuality is (for example) is equally mundane as their learning what heterosexuality is. The world is not going back to these other identities hiding themselves, so you can either accept it or spend the rest of your life uncomfortable about it. You have free will.

16. garbagewoman ◴[] No.44083984[source]
To answer 2, a lack of any reference to permission being sought is the obvious answer
17. MegaButts ◴[] No.44084043[source]
> And the millennial expectation that "OF COURSE the monopolistic corps should know everything", is by far the most disturbing part of all.

Your experiences are very different from my own. I struggle to remember meeting anyone that thought this. Mostly people are just apathetic.

replies(2): >>44084068 #>>44084963 #
18. ◴[] No.44084064[source]
19. mschuster91 ◴[] No.44084068{3}[source]
> Mostly people are just apathetic.

And apathy is what caused all of history's greatest crimes to happen. No matter which political ideology, which skin color, which age.

As for the argument of "OF COURSE the monopolistic corps should know everything" itself... I kinda get it. Google at least used to provide a decent service to the end users in exchange for all the data, but they've gone completely off the rails the last few years.

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20. HPsquared ◴[] No.44084075{4}[source]
You'd just get eggs from whoever sponsored the term "eggs" the highest.
21. MegaButts ◴[] No.44084082{4}[source]
> Google at least used to provide a decent service to the end users in exchange for all the data, but they've gone completely off the rails the last few years.

Ever since Google fucked up social media by requiring verification with Google+ they've been pretty bad. That was 14 years ago.

22. cluckindan ◴[] No.44084102{3}[source]
I thought this was obvious from the name. The phonetics of ”Alexa” are very close to sentences such as ”I like” and ”he/she likes”.
23. cluckindan ◴[] No.44084106{3}[source]
Out of curiosity, what was it last time?
replies(1): >>44084568 #
24. kbelder ◴[] No.44084114{4}[source]
People buy eggs off Amazon? Every now and then the modern world boggles my mind.
replies(2): >>44084592 #>>44087164 #
25. wormius ◴[] No.44084248{4}[source]
"But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother."
replies(1): >>44089053 #
26. BlarfMcFlarf ◴[] No.44084312{4}[source]
All the tech solutions have failed. Who do I vote for to stop it?
27. andsoitis ◴[] No.44084347{4}[source]
> And apathy is what caused all of history's greatest crimes to happen

Surely the perpetrators of the crimes should carry some blame?

replies(1): >>44091632 #
28. dotancohen ◴[] No.44084568{4}[source]
Web search, webmail, and mobile OS.
29. techjamie ◴[] No.44084592{5}[source]
I don't think so, but I needed something as an example and it was the first thing that came to mind. Also the idea of someone impulse buying eggs is amusing to me.
30. johnea ◴[] No.44084963{3}[source]
I think we're agreeing actually. because:

> Mostly people are just apathetic

and

> OF COURSE the monopolistic corps should know everything

Are, de facto, equivalent.

Not caring allows the profit-motivated non-human legal entity to pursue whatever course of action it desires.

Not caring is granting permission for that action.

I'm going out on a limb here, and I hope I don't ruin my argument with this stretch analogy:

This reminds me of the situation people enter into when they are legally married. They agree to the legal terms and liabilities of a contract without disclosure of those terms. People are informed by family, peers and society that marriage is an expression of their love and devotion to each other. Then, those unfortunate enough to find themselves in a contentious divorce, discover that the many volumes of their state's family legal code don't actually contain any language at all about love and/or devotion.

There is a lot of language about who gets the money and/or the kids.

They're now subject to the rules that they agreed to when they said "I do", even though they had no idea about those rules at the time.

Is this analogy just bitter divorce vitriol? Yes, yes it is. And I hope you never have to experience seeing things from this perspective.

But to explicitly complete the analogy: the owners of, whatever snoop device, cared enough to buy it, they cared enough to AGREE TO THE EULA!, they cared enough to let that thing monitor their home conversations for years, but they were apathetic about the long term consequences of allowing a profit-motivated no-human legal entity all the rights granted in that many paged EULA that they so eagerly clicked OK to without reading.

Now we get to see a little glimmer of the consequences of that OK. And trust me, this story is by no means the end of those consequences.

This is facilitated by, and will continue to get worse, because: Mostly people are just apathetic

31. rendaw ◴[] No.44085926[source]
Why would you suspect that, and what does the daughter being 18 now have to do with it?
32. vitus ◴[] No.44087164{5}[source]
Why not? Amazon owns Whole Foods, and Amazon Fresh has existed for almost 20 years now.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GBM7TZJ seems like a totally normal price to pay for eggs these days, although you probably wouldn't just buy a dozen eggs in isolation, given delivery fees and driver tip.

33. Flemlo ◴[] No.44089053{5}[source]
It's easier to do things/ manipulate big brother when you are part of it.

No one needs to know what else you do.

It's a lot more suspicious to not tell big brother what he wants to hear.

And besides that strategy, dystopian stories sell better. No one would read good feel descriptions.

34. const_cast ◴[] No.44091632{5}[source]
Of course but in order to commit big crimes you need a lot of assistance. Apathy does that work.

You can't build, for example, the US' system of slavery without the apathy of a bunch of white people. And that's the only thing that really maintained that system - as soon as a good chunk of white people started caring, it collapsed.