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636 points domenicd | 3 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
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bearjaws ◴[] No.44020922[source]
Spaced repetition has been all the rage for 20 years now.

Dozens of apps, thousands of lectures, and it turns out its not really a silver bullet.

There's nothing really wrong with it, it's just that people tend to fall off the same way they do on any other education pattern.

A couple years ago I was thinking "If Google and Apple really cared about kids they would make a spaced repetition unlock system", where by you have to make note cards every week and then have to answer correctly to get into your phone. (obviously requires some bypass system, other rules, etc)

You could probably jury rig it with a popup that comes up after you unlock, but people would never install it anyway.

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Alex-Programs ◴[] No.44021143[source]
Spaced repetition is time-optimised, but it isn't self-discipline optimised, nor motivation-optimised. If you're limited by time, it's very efficient, but it drains motivation. If you're anywhere close to being limited by motivation (or, failing that, self-discipline), it just causes burnout and failure.

I credit Anki to my success at GCSEs and A Levels despite having a head injury, and I also credit it to me burning out so hard I took a gap year!

And I'm enjoying the gap year, but Anki made it a near necessity.

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maximus-decimus ◴[] No.44021413[source]
I don't understand, wouldn't it be worse for motivation to take longer to achieve the same results?
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tikhonj ◴[] No.44021904{3}[source]
What's worse for motivation than taking longer?

Boredom?

Feeling like what you're doing is low-quality or superficial?

Doing something artificial for purely external reasons like grades or exams?

Can't speak for anyone else, but for me I would take slower progress over any of these... which makes spaced repetition a hard sell.

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Alex-Programs ◴[] No.44022628{4}[source]
> What's worse for motivation than taking longer?

Many things. I think HN is a bit of a bubble here, but you'll find a lot of people prefer something enjoyable but slower to something efficient and faster, even if they won't admit it.

See the popularity of Duolingo vs Anki as an example! Or Quizlet vs Anki. Or the scores of students who revise by half-watching dopamine-ified youtube videos rather than doing past papers and flashcards. If you ask people, they'll often say they care for efficiency, but their revealed preferences say otherwise.

Doing large amounts (hours) of Anki day in day out is truly miserable, particularly when the alternatives can be quite enjoyable. And if you burn out before you achieve your goal, is the "efficiency" really worth it vs going slower but eventually getting there?

Plus, a lot of people want to learn e.g. a language because they enjoy the process as well as the end result. Making the process miserable in order to get to the end result faster isn't always a good tradeoff.

Which is what it's about. It's a tradeoff. I'm a big proponent of flashcards, but I think it's important to recognise that you're trading enjoyment for speed in most cases.

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0xDEAFBEAD ◴[] No.44022663{5}[source]
Maybe an 80/20 approach where you only create flashcards for the 20% of knowledge that's most useful? E.g. for a language, you could create 1000 flashcards for the 1000 most common words which allow for basic real-world communication?
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1. Alex-Programs ◴[] No.44022788{6}[source]
My personal approach with A levels was to strictly learn content through classes, then organise things (which teaches you a lot on its own!) and make my own flashcards. Then I used the flashcards to keep it fresh till exam season. It was crazy, during revision lessons everyone else in the class would be going "uhhh I have no clue, that was two years ago" while I'd just know it.

I have tried different approaches, including using other people's flashcards (not as good - objectively they were high quality, but you gain a lot from writing your own + tailoring to your own way of looking at things) and learning from them (for my driving theory - terrible idea!). That hybrid approach is the best I've found, and the one I intend to use for my degree.

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2. 0xDEAFBEAD ◴[] No.44023339[source]
I appreciate you replying to my comments!

I confess I'm interested to hear your thoughts re: the usefulness of SRS from a more holistic perspective.

Gwern writes:

>...if, over your lifetime, you will spend more than 5 minutes looking something up or will lose more than 5 minutes as a result of not knowing something, then it’s worthwhile to memorize it with spaced repetition. 5 minutes is the line that divides trivia from useful data.

https://gwern.net/spaced-repetition

My sense is that there are very few facts I will spend more than 5 minutes of my life repeatedly looking up. And even then, many of those are facts that I will naturally end up memorizing regardless of SRS, since I'm using the info so often.

I understand the utility of SRS for test takers or language learners. When Google is impractical or unavailable, memorization makes sense. But for everything else -- why not just Google it?

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3. Alex-Programs ◴[] No.44023541[source]
Honestly, I'm not sure I'm a particularly good person to ask about this. I've experimented with Anki for areas other than test taking and language learning, but it didn't stick.

I used it for some geography stuff, and that was fine I suppose, I like geography, but I stopped after a while.

I find it easy to remember things if I care about them. Ergo, if I care enough to put it in Anki, Anki is useless.

Particularly with LLMs being a thing, you don't even need to concretely know what you're looking for - just give chatgpt a vague description and let it list out suggestions until it jogs your memory.

When it comes to physics etc, you'll end up memorising everything relevant to the areas you actually use. In areas like "What is the star type of a star with a temperature of 6000K" - something that I memorised using Anki, and which took me a while - if I actually worked in that area of astrophysics I'd obviously learn that quite quickly.

I suppose it could be useful for maintaining knowledge. Had I not been burnt out I would have kept up my flashcards through my gap year, which would've presumably been quite useful - I'm currently going through the slog of relearning how to integrate so I'm not totally embarrassed at uni!