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    Mexican Navy ship crashes into Brooklyn Bridge leaving two people dead

    (www.theguardian.com)
    127 points teleforce | 22 comments | 18 May 25 06:23 UTC | HN request time: 1.849s | source | bottom
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    ars ◴[18 May 25 06:53 UTC] No.44019505[source]▶
    The article says it lost power, but the photo shows a wind powered vessel with sails.

    Some kind of hybrid ship?

    replies(6): >>44019537 #>>44019538 #>>44019540 #>>44019737 #>>44019755 #>>44020294 #
    1. SllX ◴[18 May 25 07:01 UTC] No.44019538[source]▶
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_Cuauht%C3%A9moc_(BE01)

    Looks like it. It’s a sail training ship, but it has an engine looking at the infobox, presumably so it’s not relying on the sails for tours such as this, and maybe because the ship itself is for training and they need a failsafe? To be honest, I’m not gathering what the purpose of such a ship is to a modern Navy other than maintaining cultural continuity and a tradition in wind sailing.

    EDIT: I'm still inside the edit window but there have been several good answers below. Rather than responding to each one individually let me just say y'all have provided some great answers. Thanks!

    replies(2): >>44019558 #>>44021320 #
    2. Tomte ◴[18 May 25 07:06 UTC] No.44019558[source]▶
    Learning the fundamentals.

    Germany puts all aspiring naval officers through a tour on the Gorch Fock.

    It‘s kot just culture, although those ships also serve as excellent ambassadors to far-flung countries.

    replies(3): >>44019593 #>>44019614 #>>44019749 #
    3. nickysielicki ◴[18 May 25 07:18 UTC] No.44019593[source]▶
    The fundamentals have obviously changed. At no point in any serious engagement will it ever be important to have experience with sailing. This ship should have been dry docked and turned into a museum years ago. Two people are dead.
    replies(4): >>44019603 #>>44019606 #>>44019617 #>>44021241 #
    4. ceejayoz ◴[18 May 25 07:21 UTC] No.44019603{3}[source]▶
    The fundamentals include things like teamwork and following orders. You can learn those on a sailing ship just fine.
    replies(1): >>44020357 #
    5. shakow ◴[18 May 25 07:22 UTC] No.44019606{3}[source]▶
    That sail-trained sailors make better sailors than engine-trained sailors is similar to how glider-trained pilots make better pilots after transition than engine-trained pilots. They typically acquired a better understanding of the medium they're evolving in, giving them a deeper understanding of the dynamic situation of their craft.
    replies(1): >>44019671 #
    6. raverbashing ◴[18 May 25 07:23 UTC] No.44019614[source]▶
    I suppose "not hitting bridges" is part of the fundamentals

    But it's really curious how it seems those collisions have been becoming more frequent (or only our awareness of it?)

    Another alternative is "the sort" working better than ever which means that maritime employment in some places does not attract the best professionals

    replies(2): >>44019661 #>>44019665 #
    7. achierius ◴[18 May 25 07:24 UTC] No.44019617{3}[source]▶
    This incident could have happened regardless of the type of ship. Unless you have some reason to believe otherwise, I'd suggest against saying so.
    8. defrost ◴[18 May 25 07:35 UTC] No.44019661{3}[source]▶
    To be fair "can this ship clear this bridge given it's height, the time of day, the general broad area tidal conditions and the specific hyper local variations" is fundemental but far from basic.

    It also raises a question as to whether the fault lies with the ship crew or with a local pilot who had local control of the ship.

    replies(2): >>44019770 #>>44019868 #
    9. crooked-v ◴[18 May 25 07:36 UTC] No.44019665{3}[source]▶
    With the case of the US Navy and the well-publicized collisions with civilian vessels, it's happening more because the organization is trying to run more ships and more constant operations with fewer people than are actually required.

    And that's on top of scheduling practices that are fundamentally negligent and dysfunctional to start with, like watch standers (whose job is to watch for and react to dangers to the ship) trying to perform duty shifts on 4 hours of sleep a night for months at a time.

    replies(1): >>44019741 #
    10. nottorp ◴[18 May 25 07:37 UTC] No.44019671{4}[source]▶
    Same for being aware of the lower abstraction layers down to machine code when you're programming in a high level language.
    11. hulitu ◴[18 May 25 07:56 UTC] No.44019741{4}[source]▶
    > because the organization is trying to run more ships and more constant operations with fewer people than are actually required

    Greed and AI will replace all workers. /s

    12. murderfs ◴[18 May 25 07:58 UTC] No.44019749[source]▶
    Yeah, well, if you've invested 135 million euros into repairing a sailboat, you might as well put it to use...
    replies(1): >>44019883 #
    13. usrusr ◴[18 May 25 08:02 UTC] No.44019770{4}[source]▶
    On the videos the ship is drifting backwards, from wind and/or currents (are currents the East River dominated by tides?). I don't think that they ever intended to clear the bridge. The fundamental they missed was keeping their maneuvering engine up and running (or calling in some tugs).
    replies(3): >>44019894 #>>44019994 #>>44020518 #
    14. krisoft ◴[18 May 25 08:31 UTC] No.44019868{4}[source]▶
    It is not a case of not knowing that the bridge is too low. It is a case of not being able to avoid it and being pushed into it by winds and waves. Reportedly something went wrong with their engine.
    15. detourdog ◴[18 May 25 08:37 UTC] No.44019894{5}[source]▶
    Yes, the East river and the Hudson are both tidal estuaries. The tide has a big effect on water flow direction. I'm an in-experienced sailor but I was surprised they left with the water flowing against them.
    replies(1): >>44020494 #
    16. defrost ◴[18 May 25 09:03 UTC] No.44019994{5}[source]▶
    Damn.

    My bad for getting the full details .. I came to this story via a chain of bridge clearance fail stories and jumped to the assumption this was another intended passage clearance mistake.

    There are some knuckle chewing engineering videos of planned water transits of "big loads" timed happen for a still water king low tide .. fast work with tiny clearances and major downsides on failure.

    17. bombcar ◴[18 May 25 10:38 UTC] No.44020357{4}[source]▶
    You learn them better. A big ship can run just fine with a few people; heck, it's probably possible to run with just one if we admit it.

    Big sailing ships don't work like that, you can't furl a sail without intense physical cooperation and teamwork.

    18. sklargh ◴[18 May 25 11:20 UTC] No.44020494{6}[source]▶
    Had similar thoughts. Hell Gate is no joke.
    19. a2tech ◴[18 May 25 11:27 UTC] No.44020518{5}[source]▶
    If you watch the video you can see tugs moving the boat. Current speculation is that the tugs/harbor captain messed up and the ship got away from them in the tide and drifted backwards into the bridge.
    replies(1): >>44020968 #
    20. Polizeiposaune ◴[18 May 25 12:41 UTC] No.44020968{6}[source]▶
    Tugs were nearby; one had helped it back away from the pier it had been docked at, but none were hooked up at the time of the collision.

    Sal Mercogliano — a maritime historian at Campbell University - saw indications that the ship's engine may have been stuck in reverse.

    See video edited from his livestream here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2p9bYfFhHE

    21. loloquwowndueo ◴[18 May 25 13:21 UTC] No.44021241{3}[source]▶
    There’s a lot more to seamanship and crewmanship than propulsion methods. Cuauhtemoc is a training ship designed to teach that, not primarily how to work sails. Also it was built in 1982 so I fail to see how it should be a museum ship since it’s not that old or historic.
    22. alistairSH ◴[18 May 25 13:34 UTC] No.44021320[source]▶
    The USS Constitution is still operated by the USN. No longer solely a training vessel, but fills a similar ceremonial role.

    And the USCG operates USCGC Eagle as a training vessel for future officers attending their Academy.