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1210 points jbegley | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
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aucisson_masque ◴[] No.43656830[source]
I like to think we are in a better place than russia for instance with all its propaganda and jailed journalists, but then i see these kind of article come over and over....

Most of the people in the 'free world' goes on mainstream media, like facebook to get their news. These companies are enticed to 'suck up' to the government because at the end they are business, they need to be in good term with ruling class.

you end up with most media complying with the official story pushed by government and friends, and most people believing that because no one has the time to fact check everything.

One could argue that the difference with russia is that someone can actually look for real information, but even in russia people have access to vpn to bypass the censorship.

Another difference would be that you are allowed to express your opinion, whereas in russia you would be put to jail, that's true but only in a very limited way. Since everyone goes on mainstream media and they enforce the government narrative, you can't speak there. you are merely allowed to speak out in your little corner out of reach to anyone, and even then since most people believe the government propaganda, your arguments won't be heard at all.

The more i think about it, the less difference i see.

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Braxton1980 ◴[] No.43660757[source]
>Another difference would be that you are allowed to express your opinion, whereas in russia you would be put to jail, that's true but only in a very limited way.

Although not even close in number and punishment the US government is deporting people for speaking against Israel.

I think we do have a much better system because we are aware of these cases, you can speak out about the issue, and our court system can rule against the current admin.

What makes this possible to either the level of Russia or the US is how much the supporters of the regime want it. This is regardless of morality, legality, or the precedent it sets.

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mlindner ◴[] No.43662791[source]
> Although not even close in number and punishment the US government is deporting people for speaking against Israel.

You and I both know that isn't true and repeating that doesn't help anyone but further implant in people's minds that the other side is completely irrational and cannot be reasoned with.

No, the US government is deporting people for supporting terrorist organizations, something that's always been a disqualifying position in US immigration law. You'll get your visa denied, or even your entry denied for holding such positions, let alone maintaining an active student visa or permanent resident visa. That has always been the case and simply enforcing laws already on the books does not change that.

> What makes this possible to either the level of Russia or the US is how much the supporters of the regime want it. This is regardless of morality, legality, or the precedent it sets.

Equating Russia and the US is an extreme take.

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kamlaserbeam[dead post] ◴[] No.43663840[source]
[flagged]
immibis ◴[] No.43666386[source]
> Opposing the support for another foreign nation's genocide is not a support of terrorism?

It is in Germany and also in the USA. It doesn't matter whether you agree with the government on this point or not, because the government are the ones with the legal right to lock you up.

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1. ImPostingOnHN ◴[] No.43670020{3}[source]
it isn't, but the government in one of those countries has demonstrated a desire and willingness to arrest people on arbitrary pretexts and make them suffer while they try to free themselves from a kafkaesque nightmare regardless of what is true or legal

please don't falsely conflate opposition to the ongoing genocide of palestinians, with support for hamas