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177 points belter | 13 comments | | HN request time: 0.001s | source | bottom
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melling ◴[] No.43621706[source]
“ And solar was the fastest-growing electricity source for the 20th year in a row.

It now provides 7% of the world's electricity”

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Night_Thastus ◴[] No.43622643[source]
The economics have shifted. It used to be that solar or wind were more experimental, and lacked any economies of scale. Their production was poor and less was known about how they fared in the long term.

Now, their prices have gone down, their generation per unit has gone up, and much more is known about how they behave long-term.

The world has a LOT of power generation. It will take time to replace. But with every time that some existing power generation source shuts down due to age, or expansion occurs somewhere, it will inevitably be done with solar/wind. It's just more cost effective now.

In the end it is not environmental concerns that will cause solar and wind to become commonplace. It's just economics. Slapping down something that generates power for 20-30 years with no input fuel is just way more economically feasible than anything that requires fuel. They still have maintenance costs, but it's nothing by comparison. They can completely undercut other sources of power.

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tracerbulletx ◴[] No.43623299[source]
Storage capacity on the grid will need to massively increase as well for solar to go much further.
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ZeroGravitas ◴[] No.43623767[source]
Solar is nowhere near hitting limits that will require storage to continue growth. Like it could double several more times globally and not require storage to still make sense to roll out more.

But, storage is already growing at a pace similar to solar because it's cheaper than the alternatives.

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1. zozbot234 ◴[] No.43623832[source]
The bulk of storage on the grid is just pumped hydro, everything else is literally a drop in the bucket. Some people like to make the argument that battery storage can grow enough to become relevant but that's just speculation, it hasn't happened so far.
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2. ZeroGravitas ◴[] No.43623994[source]
Global grid BESS has caught up on Hydro capacity (which is an ambiguous word in this domain i.e. the amount that can be delivered at any one instant).

It's absorbing a third of California's generation at solar peak and then delivering a third of demand in the evening.

The future is here, just not everywhere yet.

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3. toomuchtodo ◴[] No.43624308[source]
https://thedriven.io/2025/03/25/byd-leads-unstoppable-charge... ("In 2024, 3,100 GWh of fully commissioned battery-cell manufacturing capacity was online, more than 2.5x that of annual demand. This has driven massive demand growth for EVs and stationary energy storage (BESS) systems globally, with China continuing to dominate.")

Global BESS deployments soared 53% in 2024 - https://www.energy-storage.news/global-bess-deployments-soar... - January 14, 2025 ("Storage installations in 2024 beat expectations with 205GWh installed globally, a staggering y-o-y increase of 53%. The grid market has once again been the driver of growth, with more than 160GWh deployed globally, of which 98% was lithium-ion.")

China’s Batteries Are Now Cheap Enough to Power Huge Shifts - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2024-07-09/china-... | https://archive.today/DklaA - July 9, 2024

China Already Makes as Many Batteries as the Entire World Wants - https://www.bloomberg.com/news/newsletters/2024-04-12/china-... | https://archive.today/8Dy4D - April 12, 2024

Global BESS deployments to exceed 400GWh annually by 2030, says Rystad Energy - https://www.energy-storage.news/global-bess-deployments-to-e... - June 15, 2023

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4. toomuchtodo ◴[] No.43624390[source]
> It's absorbing a third of California's generation at solar peak and then delivering a third of demand in the evening.

Citations:

https://blog.gridstatus.io/caiso-beats-the-heat/#batteries-e...

https://english.elpais.com/economy-and-business/2024-08-25/b...

https://www.energy.ca.gov/data-reports/energy-almanac/califo...

https://app.electricitymaps.com/zone/US-CAL-CISO/72h/hourly

5. hnaccount_rng ◴[] No.43624550[source]
To put that number into perspective: That's about three days of Germany's electricity usage. And we can easily absorb 2-3 days in the electric grid alone.
replies(1): >>43624911 #
6. toomuchtodo ◴[] No.43624911{3}[source]
Every 30 minutes, enough sunlight falls on Earth to power humanity for a year. It is simply a matter of scaling up fusion energy at a distance.
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7. hnaccount_rng ◴[] No.43625015{4}[source]
Oh please don't misunderstand me: We will end up using solar (or wind, which is really just solar with an extra detour), mostly because we have about 4 orders of magnitude more energy available there than we need. I just wanted to put the (admittedly impressive sounding) number of 3,100 GWh annual battery production capacity in perspective.

And to further qualify that: The capacity is increasing rapidly (but we will need it)

8. AnthonyMouse ◴[] No.43627276[source]
It's still not clear how this is supposed to work for heating load.

Covering the incremental evening demand peak is one thing. Converting fuel oil and natural gas-based heating to electric and then covering the nighttime winter heating load in northern latitudes is something else entirely.

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9. ZeroGravitas ◴[] No.43627435{3}[source]
Just repurposing that gas used for heating to generating electricity for heat pumps is a big step forward, delivering more heat for less gas and synergises well with wind and batteries which further reduce gas usage.

Gas boilers are now the leading source of NOx pollution in London since they've made so much progress on traffic sources.

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10. AnthonyMouse ◴[] No.43627484{4}[source]
Well sure, but if the premise is that we're going to replace everything with solar and batteries, that one's the hard one.

Whereas heat pumps powered by nuclear reactors work pretty well, if you could get the cost of nuclear reactors under control by getting mass production going.

11. ben_w ◴[] No.43630935{3}[source]
Between better insulation[0], and north-south grid connections[1], I'm not sure this is a huge issue.

Yes, there are going to be places like Nuorgam in Finland where a population of 200 may turn out to be non-economical to put on the same suitably upgraded HVDC grid as everyone else, but they're also not getting e.g. a dedicated nuclear reactor any time soon.

Yes, that does still leave oil and gas in such places. Or would, if the oil and gas remained economical to supply internationally when the majority of users worldwide stop using it. Biofuels (e.g. wood in a fireplace) is still a thing, even if not fantastic for either health or environment. I have no idea if we're going to see other long-term chemistry-based solutions, people keep talking about ammonia but it's too far out of my knowledge to argue for or against.

[0] I'm 52° north and for the last 6 months was wearing T-shirts indoors for an average of 17 kWh per day (for everything: heating, hot water, appliances, tech) even though there were a few times I accidentally left a huge window open for hours. It's very well insulated and has a heat pump.

[1] Longer days closer to the equator. North tip of Lapland has 52 days without sunrise in winter[2], but it's just a question of "how much money and what's the cheaper alternative" for a grid connection that ultimately ends up in the Sahara where the winter solstice day length is 10 hours[3].

[2] https://www.finavia.fi/en/newsroom/2023/what-polar-night-exp...

[3] https://www.wolframalpha.com/input?i=Tataouine+sunrise+21+De...

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12. AnthonyMouse ◴[] No.43656646{4}[source]
It's not clear how north-south grid connections are supposed to address this. You can create a long-distance transmission line from New York to Florida, but it's winter in Florida at the same time as it's winter in New York. Can you create a long distance transmission line from New York to Brazil? Even if you could in theory, probably not in practice, and even regardless of the technical factors nobody is going to want that kind of cross-border dependency for something as important as heating.
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13. ben_w ◴[] No.43659888{5}[source]
> You can create a long-distance transmission line from New York to Florida, but it's winter in Florida at the same time as it's winter in New York.

On 21 December, the day is about 77 minutes longer in Miami than in NYC, and panels in Miami aren't going to be covered in snow.

> Can you create a long distance transmission line from New York to Brazil?

Yes. $$$.

Spend enough (production is high enough for this, yes I have checked, it's just how much money you want to spend) and it could be from NYC to Perth Australia.

> Even if you could in theory, probably not in practice, and even regardless of the technical factors nobody is going to want that kind of cross-border dependency for something as important as heating.

Also true. Unfortunately.