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275 points belter | 15 comments | | HN request time: 0.893s | source | bottom
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duxup ◴[] No.43581973[source]
It feels like every pick of this administration is just someone who has a motivation for corruption.
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nine_zeros[dead post] ◴[] No.43582200[source]
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1. danaris ◴[] No.43582324[source]
I mean, genuinely, the problem here is not that Trump is a convicted criminal. There are many people who are "convicted felons" who are far more ethical, intelligent, and possessed of better leadership qualities than he is. In particular, a) anyone convicted of nonviolent drug offenses should not be considered suspect in anything like the same way, and b) more generally, if you base your determinations of people on what's legal, you put yourself at the mercy of whatever the current government decides is acceptable. This government should make very clear why that is not the best idea in the world.

No; the problem with Trump is the specific types of laws he broke. He broke laws around honesty, fair dealing, obstruction of justice, and, of course, the integrity of elections and our democratic process. He is, very plainly, opposed to democracy and the rule of law, preferring to replace it with cronyism and nepotism.

That's why he's bad for the country, not simply "because he's a convicted criminal."

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2. duxup ◴[] No.43582357[source]
I think when people mention Trump and felon and other character issues, rapist, and so on ... it's really a reference to all of them adding up to who he is.

Less so a commentary on his list of problems.

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3. a4isms ◴[] No.43582374[source]
I suggest the simplest explanation of how Trump is different from other felons is right there in Wilhoit's observation on conservatism:

"In-groups who are protected by the law, but not bound by it, alongside out-groups who are bound by the law, but not protected by it."

He may have been convicted, but he faced no consequences. He was not bound by the law, so not only did his convictions and investigations not deter him, the lack of consequences emboldened him.

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4. amelius ◴[] No.43582394[source]
> There are many people who (...)

True, but we're talking about expectations here.

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5. nine_zeros ◴[] No.43582410[source]
> I mean, genuinely, the problem here is not that Trump is a convicted criminal. There are many people who are "convicted felons" who are far more ethical, intelligent, and possessed of better leadership qualities than he is.

Convicted criminal + blatant lies = disregard for society, disregard for people, disregard for rules/norms/laws. It all adds up to who he is and what he values and represents.

NOBODY should be surprised at this administration's disregard for society. You should be actually surprised if he does anything good/lawful.

6. joshuanapoli ◴[] No.43582428[source]
Yeah, there's some sense to the idea that one ideal kind of lawmaker is someone who has broken the laws but still remains a good person doing good things. I don't personally think that's the case with Trump, but apparently a lot of other people do.
7. danaris ◴[] No.43582620[source]
...and?

I'm sorry, I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say here.

Are you saying it's normal or acceptable to have your expectations be that a "convicted criminal" is automatically a bad person?

If so, then particularly given the large and very-well-documented racial biases in arrest, prosecution, and conviction for crimes here in the US, perhaps you should consider adjusting those expectations?

If not, then please actually say what you mean clearly.

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8. amelius ◴[] No.43582779{3}[source]
I don't know why you're attacking me, since I just responded to:

> Seriously, what does one really expect from an unethical convicted criminal?

and your subsequent comment on that.

9. skeeter2020 ◴[] No.43582836[source]
I agree. If you could somehow describe him to a 5-yr-old (without psychologically scaring them) they would accurately sum up the zeitgeist as "he's a bad person".
10. hackyhacky ◴[] No.43583220{3}[source]
> Are you saying it's normal or acceptable to have your expectations be that a "convicted criminal" is automatically a bad person?

I believe what the parent comment is trying to say is: someone who committed crimes in the past has evinced a lack of respect for the law, and is therefore more likely to commit crimes in the future than someone with a history of law-abiding.

"Bad person" is a value judgement, which is besides the point.

11. troyvit ◴[] No.43583358[source]
That's an important distinction.

Case in point:

https://sandersinstitute.org/event/bernie-sanders-arrest-at-...

Convicted of resisting arrest.

12. wat10000 ◴[] No.43585104[source]
I'm generally in favor of giving people a chance and not just judging them based on the law regardless of morality.

But there's only one POTUS. There are multiple people out there who could do a decent job of being POTUS. Many of them are not convicted felons. We wouldn't lose much if we filtered out the entire convicted-felon category from this particular job.

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13. FireBeyond ◴[] No.43585275[source]
I mean, Florida, who does not allow convicted felons to vote, allowed him to vote by saying "well, he's been convicted but not sentenced or completed his sentence so he's not fullllly convicted yet".

This rationale doesn't apply to any other person in a similar state in Florida, it was just for Trump.

14. danaris ◴[] No.43586710[source]
Consider the situation where Trump is President, and someone is running against him.

He gets the police to arrest this opposition candidate, let's say for marijuana possession with the intent to sell (a felony), and with procedural chicanery ensures that the court trying the case is run by a Trump-appointed judge.

The opposition candidate is convicted of this charge.

Under your suggestion, they would then become ineligible to be elected.

It gets even worse if the corrupt President has a compliant Congress (which it seemed like he did for a little while, but that's less sure now). If he can ram through a new law making "criticizing the sitting President" a felony, then basically anyone who would oppose him and his regime would clearly be guilty.

In general, the sitting government decides what is a crime and what is not. If you make a law that says that those convicted of crimes cannot run for public office—either "any public office" or "only this specific public office"—then the sitting government, if it is seeking to act in its own interests rather than those of the people, has a perverse incentive to preferentially criminalize things that those who disagree with them are more likely to do, and to encourage (or coerce) bias in policing and trials to ensure conviction.

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15. wat10000 ◴[] No.43586834{3}[source]
I did not suggest making felons ineligible for office. I'm supporting the idea that it would generally be OK for voters to reject a convicted felon candidate on the basis that they are a convicted criminal, without thinking too hard about what crime they were convicted of. I don't expect that to apply in an environment where the things you describe happen, but it would apply perfectly fine now.