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388 points pseudolus | 21 comments | | HN request time: 1.421s | source | bottom
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ferguess_k ◴[] No.43493912[source]
What I worry a lot more instead is how knowledge of manufacturing and engineering could be lost due to our greed.

Typical scenario: Industry I is not doing fine in country C (i.e. the fund managers are not happy about lack of growth of the public companies in this sector) due to reasons R1, R2, ..., Rn. Then management decided to outsource and eventually dismantle the factories to "globalize" it. Knowledge retained by the older generation of engineers, technicians and workers were completely lost when they passed away.

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1. al_borland ◴[] No.43494174[source]
I think about this often and it bothers me a lot.

I think the same can happen for knowledge work. Country A ends up turning into a bunch of managers outsourcing to Country B, and then at some point Country B realizes they can manage themselves. Companies are quite literally training their future competition. Once it reaches a tipping point, I don’t think it’s easy to reverse.

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2. pca006132 ◴[] No.43494357[source]
I feel like top management and share holders don't really care about things that may happen ~30 years later. And even if they care, there are a lot more other issues that may ruin a company, e.g. the entire industry is replaced due to technological advancement.
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3. cultofmetatron ◴[] No.43494591[source]
> Country A ends up turning into a bunch of managers outsourcing to Country B,

why the need to be hypothetical? this is more or less how it played out between china and america. America outsourced all manufacturing to China while doing all the R&D and "innovation." one look at companies like DJI, BYD and Bambulab and its clear that china can innovate just fine on their own now. Their products are becoming objectively better than the US designed ones.

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4. treis ◴[] No.43494750[source]
I don't think that's ever really happened. If you look at GDP per worker the closest anyone has gotten to the West is Japan & South Korea at roughly 3/4 the production of France.

They can take over existing industries like autos because they do it for cheaper. They can compete in niches for innovation. But they are all capped by structural issues that will prevent them from matching the economic innovation of the west.

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5. raducu ◴[] No.43494850[source]
> Country B realizes they can manage themselves.

That's a thing we were taught in "Civic Culture" in grade 5 -- that slaves can become masters through hard work and making the master dependent on them.

But now I see it more in a figurative way, because it rarely happens with actual slaves, but in a more metaphorical way, it certainly can happen.

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6. ferguess_k ◴[] No.43494859[source]
I think GDP is a biased indicator when states are competing with each others. Industrial output makes more sense IMHO.
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7. ferguess_k ◴[] No.43494868[source]
They definitely not, and there is no safe valve for it.

Can't blame them though, this is what Capitalism teaches all of us. I'm short sighted too, but the thing is I won't be able to go wherever I want when SHTF while fund managers can probably do so.

8. raducu ◴[] No.43494874[source]
> china can innovate just fine on their own now.

If China could turn democratic and open, the World would have such a bright future.

Alas, I think we're headed into some distopian future because China is not going that way but indeed, they're very likely to surpass the USA in every other way.

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9. auggierose ◴[] No.43494976[source]
Denzel also delivers this lesson in Gladiator 2.
10. losvedir ◴[] No.43495020[source]
And Japan before that. My mom told me that many years ago "Made in Japan" had the stigma that "Made in China" has (or used to have). But growing up with Nintendo and Sega and with Hondas and Toyotas being the best, I always thought of Japan has a high tech manufacturing hub.
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11. badc0ffee ◴[] No.43495245{3}[source]
This was a joke in Back to the Future - the people in 1955 associated Japan with junk, and 1985 Marty says all the best stuff comes from there.
12. generic92034 ◴[] No.43495255{3}[source]
First let's see if the USA even can keep a democratic system running.
13. thwarted ◴[] No.43495256{3}[source]
There was a reference to that in Back to the Future 3, the difference between the way Japan was viewed in the 50s compared to the 80s.

Doc: No wonder it failed, "Made in Japan"

Marty: What do you mean, doc? All the best stuff is made in Japan.

14. ◴[] No.43495315[source]
15. Apes ◴[] No.43495432{3}[source]
It feels like "Democratic and open" in the US has become "shadowy oligarchy and kleptocracy run for the benefit of whoever can control the media propaganda machine controlling the masses"
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16. bayindirh ◴[] No.43495504{3}[source]
The thing is, Americans brought the idea of constant, small improvements to Japan. Japanese took the idea of kaizen and ran amok with it. Turns out kaizen is very fitting to their craftsman mindset.
17. swsieber ◴[] No.43495631{3}[source]
Reminds me of something I read in a sermon published oh (checks date) 24 years ago:

"More than thirty years ago I stood beside the desk of Professor Richard Rosenbloom, who taught courses in manufacturing management. In those days they called the field 'production.' I was a research assistant, and Professor Rosenbloom had just stood up to welcome one of his students into his office. The student, of medium height, was dressed in a dark suit and tie. He stood before the desk, bowed deeply, and handed to his professor a beautifully wrapped gift. He had completed his studies and was returning to his home in Japan.

"The professor murmured thanks and then, to demonstrate his appreciation, he unwrapped the gift. It was a black fountain pen with gold trim. He sat down at his desk, took out a piece of paper, filled the pen from an ink bottle, took the pen in his hand, and began to write. The student beamed. But then he looked stunned, as we all did—the pen was not writing. Professor Rosenbloom pressed harder. The student frowned more deeply. Nothing. Professor Rosenbloom tried swirling the pen. Still, no ink flowed. Finally, in exasperation, the student reached across the desk, grabbed the pen, shook it forcefully, and said with great feeling, 'Cheap Japanese pen!'"

18. sawaali ◴[] No.43495946[source]
It did happen in the Muslim world. There are "slave" dynasties in many parts of that world (Egypt, India) which were robust dynasties borne out of freed slaves.
19. ferguess_k ◴[] No.43497407{4}[source]
Reminds me of this one: https://americanliterature.com/author/mark-twain/short-story...
20. treis ◴[] No.43498051{3}[source]
Not really because actually making stuff isn't as valuable as engineering stuff (or other service-like activities).
21. al_borland ◴[] No.43500080[source]
It's not necessarily the fault of the company. The government created the environment to make it the only way to stay competitive for a lot of companies. Some bucked the trend, and I respect them for it. There is a push to bring things back now, but it's going to be ugly. It's much better to avoid the issue in the first place like most countries, but it's too late for that.