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612 points meetpateltech | 50 comments | | HN request time: 2.328s | source | bottom
1. singhrac ◴[] No.42951332[source]
What is the model I get at gemini.google.com (i.e. through my Workspace subscription)? It says "Gemini Advanced" but there are no other details. No model selection option.

I find the lack of clarity very frustrating. If I want to try Google's "best" model, should I be purchasing something? AI Studio seems focused around building an LLM wrapper app, but I just want something to answer my questions.

Edit: what I've learned through Googling: (1) if you search "is gemini advanced included with workspace" you get an AI overview answer that seems to be incorrect, since they now include Gemini Advanced (?) with every workspace subscription.(2) a page exists telling you to buy the add-on (Gemini for Google Workspace), but clicking on it says this is no longer available because of the above. (3) gemini.google.com says "Gemini Advanced" (no idea which model) at the top, but gemini.google.com/advanced redirects me to what I have deduced is the consumer site (?) which tells me that Gemini Advanced is another $20/month

The problem, Google PMs if you're reading this, is that the gemini.google.com page does not have ANY information about what is going on. What model is this? What are the limits? Do I get access to "Deep Research"? Does this subscription give me something in aistudio? What about code artifacts? The settings option tells me I can change to dark mode (thanks!).

Edit 2: I decided to use aistudio.google.com since it has a dropdown for me on my workspace plan.

replies(10): >>42951517 #>>42951525 #>>42951760 #>>42952840 #>>42952974 #>>42953003 #>>42953418 #>>42956781 #>>42963210 #>>42974312 #
2. ysofunny ◴[] No.42951517[source]
hmm did you try clickin where it says 'gemini advanced'? I find it opens a drop down
replies(1): >>42951952 #
3. rickette ◴[] No.42951525[source]
"what model are you using, exact name please" is usually the first prompt I enter when trying out something.
replies(3): >>42951664 #>>42951784 #>>42960721 #
4. lxgr ◴[] No.42951664[source]
You'd be surprised at how confused some models are about who they are.
replies(1): >>42951775 #
5. miyuru ◴[] No.42951760[source]
changes must be rolling out now, I can see 3 Gemini 2.0 models in the dropdown, with blue "new" badges.

screenshot: https://beeimg.com/images/g25051981724.png

replies(2): >>42952009 #>>42954466 #
6. freedomben ◴[] No.42951775{3}[source]
Indeed, asking the model which model it is might be one of the worst ways to find that information out
7. mynameisvlad ◴[] No.42951784[source]
Gemini 2.0 Flash Thinking responds with

> I am currently running on the Gemini model.

Gemini 1.5 Flash responds with

> I'm using Gemini 2.0 Flash.

I'm not even going to go on a limb here and say that question isn't going to give you an accurate response.

replies(2): >>42956107 #>>42964437 #
8. singhrac ◴[] No.42951952[source]
I just tried it but nothing happens when I click on that. You're talking about the thing on the upper left next to the open/close menu button?
replies(1): >>42952349 #
9. singhrac ◴[] No.42952009[source]
This works on my personal Google account, but not on my workspace one. So I guess there's no access to 2.0 Pro then? I'm ok trying out Flash for now and see if it fixes the mistakes I ran into yesterday.

Edit: it does not. It continues to miss the fact that I'm (incorrectly) passing in a scaled query tensor to scaled_dot_product_attention. o3-mini-high gets this right.

replies(1): >>42953404 #
10. easychris ◴[] No.42952349{3}[source]
Yes, very frustrating for me as well. I consider now purchasing Gemini Advance with another Non-Workspace account. :-(

I also found this [1]: “ Important:

A chat can only use one model. If you switch between models in an existing chat, it automatically starts a new chat. If you’re using Gemini Apps with a work or school Google Account, you can’t switch between models. Learn more about using Gemini Apps with a work or school account.”

I have no idea why the workspace accounts are such restricted.

[1] https://support.google.com/gemini/answer/14517446?hl=en&co=G...

11. behnamoh ◴[] No.42952840[source]
The number one reason I don't use Google Gemini is because they truncate the input text. So I can't simply paste long documents or other kinds of things as raw text in the prompt box.
replies(1): >>42953004 #
12. nudpiedo ◴[] No.42952974[source]
Today I wasted 1 hour looking in how to use or where to find "Deep Research”.

I could not. I have the business workplace standard, which contains the Gemini advance, not sure whether I need a VPN, pay a separate AI product, or even pay a higher workplace tier or what the heck is going on at all.

There are so many confusing products interrelated and lack of focus everywhere that I really do not know anymore whether it is worth as an AI provider.

replies(2): >>42953115 #>>42961561 #
13. coolgoose ◴[] No.42953003[source]
Plus one on this it's so stupid, but also mandatory in a way. Sigh
14. radeeyate ◴[] No.42953004[source]
If you have the need to paste long documents, why don't you just upload the file at that point?
replies(3): >>42953066 #>>42953094 #>>42954880 #
15. heavyarms ◴[] No.42953066{3}[source]
The last time I checked (a few days ago) it only had an "Upload Image" option... and I have been playing with Gemini on and off for months and I have never been able to actually upload an image.

It's basically what I've come to expect from most Google products at this point: half-baked, buggy, confusing, not intuitive.

replies(1): >>42957873 #
16. Xiol32 ◴[] No.42953094{3}[source]
Friction.
replies(1): >>42954562 #
17. gerad ◴[] No.42953115[source]
You need to pay for Gemini to access it. In my experience, it's not worth it. So much potential in the experience, but the AI isn't good enough.

I'm curious about the OpenAI alternative, but am not willing to pay $200/month.

replies(3): >>42953489 #>>42959390 #>>42963144 #
18. vel0city ◴[] No.42953404{3}[source]
As someone with over a decade of Google Apps management history, my experiences is Workspace customers are practically always the last to get the shiny new features. Quite frustrating.
replies(2): >>42954647 #>>42964215 #
19. vldmrs ◴[] No.42953418[source]
This is funny how bad UI is on some of websites which are considered the best. Today I tried to find prices for Mistral models but I couldn’t. Their prices page leads to 404…
replies(2): >>42954153 #>>42955991 #
20. nudpiedo ◴[] No.42953489{3}[source]
if it would make whole market research on products and companies I would gladly pay for it... but a bit unsure from Europe where it seems to be everything restricted due political boundaries.
replies(1): >>42956177 #
21. PhilippGille ◴[] No.42954153[source]
Just in case you're still interested in their pricing, it's towards the bottom of [1], section "How to buy", when changing the selection from "Self-hosted" to "Mistral Cloud".

[1] https://mistral.ai/en/products/la-plateforme

22. panarky ◴[] No.42954466[source]
If you subscribe to Gemini the menu looks like this, with the addition of 2.0 Pro.

https://imgur.com/a/xZ7hzag

replies(1): >>42956390 #
23. johnisgood ◴[] No.42954562{4}[source]
Claude automatically uploads it as "Pasted text" if it is too long that you paste into the textarea. Works either way anyways.
24. basch ◴[] No.42954647{4}[source]
Isn't that generally how it goes? Windows Vista was tested on consumers to make 7 Enterprise appropriate?
replies(1): >>42959918 #
25. behnamoh ◴[] No.42954880{3}[source]
Because sometimes the text is the result of my whisper transcription.
26. behnamoh ◴[] No.42955991[source]
if only these models were good at web development and could be used in agentic frameworks to build high quality website... wait...
replies(1): >>42961399 #
27. jug ◴[] No.42956107{3}[source]
Yeah, they need something in their system prompt to tell their name or else they have absolutely no idea what they are and will hallucinate to 100% based on training data. If you're lucky, the AI just might guess right based on these circumstances.

It's not unusual for AI's to think they're OpenAI/ChatGPT because it's become so popular that it's leaked into the buzz it's trained on.

28. A_D_E_P_T ◴[] No.42956177{4}[source]
I have OpenAI Deep Research access in Europe and it is extremely good. It's also particularly good at niche market research in products and companies.

Happy to give you a demo. If you want to send me a prompt, I can share a link to the resulting output.

replies(2): >>42957067 #>>42960689 #
29. glerk ◴[] No.42956390{3}[source]
It doesn't for workspace users. No dropdown appears.
30. ◴[] No.42956781[source]
31. nudpiedo ◴[] No.42957067{5}[source]
I wish to know how to access it for myself, but how may I contact you?

is it chatGPT Plus, Pro or something else? Where are you based UK or Germany?

I was hoping for a market research on SysML tooling.

replies(2): >>42960297 #>>42960366 #
32. rezonant ◴[] No.42957873{4}[source]
It definitely has the ability to upload normal files, the + button has several options.

If you don't have it, you might be in a Google feature flag jail-- this happens frustratingly often, where 99.9% of users have a feature flag enabled but your account just gets stuck with the flag off with no way to resolve it. It's the absolute worst part about Google.

33. diamondfist25 ◴[] No.42959390{3}[source]
Deep research in chatgpt pro is nice. It’ll go fetch api docs (and github examples) and make your code more correct.

Saved me the headache of manually going thru pages of doc

34. OccamsMirror ◴[] No.42959918{5}[source]
Except with Google you might never get the feature.

Still can't manage Google Workspace Calendar with Google Home, for instance. A feature that's been available for personal accounts for years.

replies(1): >>42964227 #
35. stavros ◴[] No.42960297{6}[source]
See the top of the announcement:

https://openai.com/index/introducing-deep-research/

It's Pro only for now.

36. A_D_E_P_T ◴[] No.42960366{6}[source]
Just post your prompt here and I'll give you a link to the response. Deep research requires pretty detailed prompts in order to generate high-quality reports.

I'm usually in Croatia but am right now in Greece. My account ($200 Pro account) works the same wherever I am, even when I'm outside the EU, e.g. in Serbia.

37. nudpiedo ◴[] No.42960689{5}[source]
Thanks for the offering, seriously, it is an important investment/cost I wasn't sure it would be worth right now. (If you wish to I added some contact information, for an easier chat, in my HN profile; just for the following day).

Here is a realistic case I would have used

Short prompt: "research the market of the SysML products and industry cap, key actors, opportunities and advantages"

Expanded prompt:

“Conduct a detailed market analysis of SysML (Systems Modeling Language) products and services, focusing on the following aspects: 1. Industry Overview: • Current market size and growth trends for SysML-related products and services. • Global market cap or valuation of the SysML industry or similar system engineering software. 2. Key Players: • Identify major companies and organizations offering SysML tools, including established leaders and emerging competitors. • Provide a brief description of each key player’s products, innovations, and market share. 3. Product Offerings: • Highlight the range of SysML-based products available (e.g., modeling software, integration tools, training services). • Compare features, target industries, and pricing strategies. 4. Market Opportunities: • Explore new or underserved industries where SysML adoption could grow (e.g., aerospace, automotive, healthcare). • Identify gaps in current product offerings that represent potential areas for innovation or competitive advantage. 5. Competitive Advantages: • Analyze what makes SysML valuable to companies (e.g., improving system complexity management, ensuring design consistency). • Evaluate how SysML tools offer a competitive advantage compared to alternative solutions like UML or other system modeling methods. 6. Challenges and Risks: • Discuss potential challenges such as market saturation, training requirements, or competing technologies. • Highlight external factors that could affect market growth, such as regulations or advances in adjacent industries.

Provide sources where relevant, including reports, studies, or insights from industry experts.”

Hvala.

replies(1): >>42961612 #
38. ◴[] No.42960721[source]
39. incrudible ◴[] No.42961399{3}[source]
They aren’t.
replies(1): >>42963300 #
40. jerpint ◴[] No.42961561[source]
Similar feeling with Gemini g suite integration
41. A_D_E_P_T ◴[] No.42961612{6}[source]
Report link: https://chatgpt.com/share/67a4a67b-5060-8005-85b8-65eef3cb60...

Let me know what you think, will ya? I'm curious as to how you'd evaluate the quality of that report.

Also note the follow-up prompt I gave it. This thing needs as much detail as you can give it, and small changes to your prompt can hugely influence the end result.

replies(1): >>42962047 #
42. nudpiedo ◴[] No.42962047{7}[source]
Wow, thank you so much, that was 11 pages full pages. I will be a bit critical with it hoping my review helps you as well, since to me, it was very friendly and useful your offer (also I wonder if you can still do 99 more reserachs like this one during the month or this amounts already to many of such research in total).

Superficially:

- Awesome how fast is available and all sources linked to explain each claim

- To export that to a proper doc with footnotes and proper formatting it's already something to be worked by openAI

- it looks like the perfect way to create a gut feeling and a sense of what is going on

Content:

- Wrong studies: It mixed SysML (a particular visual language for which it was specifically requested) with MBSE (the family of tools) which is exactly not the same as the desired study was particular for SysML.

- Quality of data: Most of the data comes from public articles and studies made by others, all the time about MBSE, not SysML, and just quotes their numbers, it does not do its own estimates looking for the benefits of such products on each company and estimating a projection (that would be an actual research, and an AI should be capable of tirelessly do that or even biasedly look for the right pieces if information). For example it was a report on diet, a report like that should avoid debunk articles, bro's blogs, etc.

- Inconsistent scales: at some comparison table, it mentioned at the foot that it will display pricing with such schema:(Pricing: $ = low, $$$$ = high) however it made that in a single row. Why? the source for that field made that as well in its source, but none of the other fields repeated this system to value or adapt results.

- Only googleable data: companies reports or private databases here are key for a high quality report. Sometimes this is not always possible for an AI or a crawler but here am I evaluating the outcome (use case): a market analisis for strategic purposes.

- Quality of the report: Many things mentioned like services around the products are also highly valuable... would be useful to remark case by case the business model of each company and how much is in the product and how much is in the related service (using a pie chats or whatever) and showing particular case studies to remark the market trend, from which model is coming from (product) and where it is going to (services and SaaS).

I could continue longer with many other things and such errors but it is quite long.

Conclusion:

It is very useful, particularly to grasp a general, yet detailed, idea on what is going on, on a market. However it is only as valid as a remix of previous things, not an actual market research for an actual strategy. Many sources, elements, landscape of which companies and products related are there are totally useful, perhaps 30%-40% of the total work and it gives a clear structure where to go from here.

Probably it may improve the more interactive that the tool is, for example asking to correct some sections or improve in specifically suggested ways by the user. Basically the user needs to bring expertise, reasoning from the field and critical thinking (things machines will be lacking in any foreseeable future).

Why am I so critic? Remember, map is not the territory, particularly in strategic terms. And it is also a problem that many professionals do also these kind of failures: uncritically copying data from other's reports without verifying critically any of it which leads to very specific kinds of strategic errors.

It will become more useful as it becomes specialized in the kind of reports, and judges critically (which does not) and if it can be adapted to work on a private repo or preselected amounts of sources, or even prescripted agent behaves for the sort of report.

Verdict:

I would purchase it, not to solve the problem or resell it, but as a way to get started and accelerate the process. It already does what an internship student would do, or a mediocre professional: revamp preexisting mashups to get a general, but detailed, feeling but no more insights or research than what it is already well known (googling after all).

It has a great future as it would be great if such level of non creative work is automated away as their value often is marginal and uncritically propagates previous beliefs and biases (and if there is a centralized tool, that can be tuned to avoid well known issues)

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43. ◴[] No.42963144{3}[source]
44. pjc50 ◴[] No.42963210[source]
> you get an AI overview answer that seems to be incorrect

It seems AI cannot yet defeat the obfuscation of its own product managers. Great advert for AI, that.

45. behnamoh ◴[] No.42963300{4}[source]
yes, I was being sarcastic.
46. glonq ◴[] No.42964215{4}[source]
Can confirm. I run my family on the free Google Workspace Starter edition that they offered years and years ago. And we are definitely second-class citizens when it comes to old, current, and new Google features.

TBH I'd love to find a way to disband everybody from the workspace but somehow keep their identity, history, photos, etc. Even if it meant getting new @gmail addresses.

47. glonq ◴[] No.42964227{6}[source]
can't buy a youtube premium family subscription either, which sucks! also can't leave reviews in the google play store.
48. jsight ◴[] No.42964437{3}[source]
You'd think they would include this kind of detail in the training set, but it gets overlooked.
49. A_D_E_P_T ◴[] No.42967324{8}[source]
> It is very useful, particularly to grasp a general, yet detailed, idea on what is going on, on a market. However it is only as valid as a remix of previous things, not an actual market research for an actual strategy. Many sources, elements, landscape of which companies and products related are there are totally useful, perhaps 30%-40% of the total work and it gives a clear structure where to go from here.

> Probably it may improve the more interactive that the tool is, for example asking to correct some sections or improve in specifically suggested ways by the user. Basically the user needs to bring expertise, reasoning from the field and critical thinking (things machines will be lacking in any foreseeable future).

Yeah, that's just the thing. With what you know, you can iterate on the results it gives you. It's very sensitive to how your prompt is written and structured, so some fine tuning, user-provided context, and user expertise, it'll dial-in on any subject very well. It's not top-expert-level yet -- at least not on its own -- but it's close, and it's miles better than asking o1-Pro (or Deepseek r1) for a detailed report.

50. radicality ◴[] No.42974312[source]
Google workspace is always such a mess. I also have Google workspace, and it did let me do some chatting in the Gemini app few days ago. No idea what model, and of course there was no dropdown.

Just today I wanted to continue a conversation from two days ago, and after writing to the chat, I just get back an error “This chat was created with Gemini Advanced. Get it now to continue this chat.” And I don’t even know if that’s a bug, or some expected sales funnel where they gave me a nibble of it for free and now want me to pay up.