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927 points smallerfish | 10 comments | | HN request time: 1.753s | source | bottom
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ptero ◴[] No.42925410[source]
That's heavy editorializing:

El Salvador keeps buying the Bitcoin for its strategic reserve. Businesses and citizens can keep using it.

But for getting an IMF loan, IMF (which, to put it mildly, doesn't like Bitcoin) required the end to Bitcoin legal tender status.

Now the businesses are free to accept it or not instead of being required to accept it. That's all. The government plans to keep buying and using it.

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georgeecollins ◴[] No.42926067[source]
There seems to be two concepts that are getting conflated. One concept is that BTC is a good investment. Historically that is undeniable.

The other concept is that it is a good medium of exchange. I think that is not so true because 1) its neither cheap nor easy to buy a lot of things with it 2) a thing that goes up in value is not a good medium of exchange because people don't want to spend it, they want to hoard it.

If you accept that BTC is a reasonable investment, but not a great medium of exchange then what is happening makes sense.

I am not saying that a decentralized token couldn't be a good medium of exchange -- honestly I don't know. But so far BTC is not that.

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olalonde ◴[] No.42927500[source]
You're also conflating two distinct concepts: "Bitcoin the currency" and "Bitcoin the payment network."

The currency itself can be used independently of its base-layer network, which is intentionally slow and costly (functioning primarily as a settlement layer). This separation is enabled by off-chain or layer 2 systems, such as the Lightning Network or custodial platforms. These solutions retain Bitcoin's monetary benefits - like a predictable money supply, off/on ramping through the base layer - while enabling fast, cheap transactions. The tradeoff is that you must trust an intermediary, but this mirrors the same compromise inherent to digital USD payment systems (Venmo, credit cards, PayPal, etc.).

In fact, USD lacks a true "base layer" altogether. The closest equivalent would be the Federal Reserve Bank’s ledger, but accounts there are restricted to large financial institutions, not individuals.

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1. next_xibalba ◴[] No.42928070[source]
That’s a lot of words for “it cannot be used in everyday financial transactions”.
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2. olalonde ◴[] No.42928136[source]
It's not convenient to use "Bitcoin the payment network" for everyday financial transactions, just as it's not convenient to use the "USD the payment network" (e.g. the Federal Reserve ledger) for everyday financial transactions (in fact, it's impossible).

However, “Bitcoin the currency” and “USD the currency” work perfectly for daily use if you route them through trusted intermediaries (Strike, Cash App, PayPal, etc.). These third parties abstract away the base layer and offer fast, cheap, and reversible transactions.

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3. toenail ◴[] No.42928993[source]
What do you mean, I use bitcoin and the lightning network all the time for small payments.
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4. jcgl ◴[] No.42929548[source]
But Bitcoin qua payment network is/was a major part of the Bitcoin value proposition—what a Bitcoin _is_ is an entry in a distributed ledger.

Whereas USD is ultimately bearer tokens. Yes, those tokens can be optimized away as entries on a balance sheet when held by a large entity. But USD is a token system, not a payment network. Bitcoin is the opposite.

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5. yieldcrv ◴[] No.42930327[source]
I wish there was usdc over lightning

if there is, it’s poorly advertised

does seem like a huge swing and a miss for lightning to only have unstable value units of account going over it

the market clearly wants something else, and has that, on other networks at large volumes

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6. toenail ◴[] No.42930598{3}[source]
https://docs.lightning.engineering/the-lightning-network/tap...
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7. olalonde ◴[] No.42931238{3}[source]
> But Bitcoin qua payment network is/was a major part of the Bitcoin value proposition—what a Bitcoin _is_ is an entry in a distributed ledger.

I know that's what hardcore Bitcoiners have typically pushed for, but I personally disagree. To me, the most interesting thing about Bitcoin is its predictable and unmanipulatable money supply. The payment network is nice though because it can let you easily and permissionlessly take your Bitcoin wherever you want. Fees are actually not that exorbitant, certainly cheaper than SWIFT transfers. The current average transaction fee is around 1 USD and the first confirmation, which is sufficient for most kind of transactions, takes 10 minutes on average.

> Whereas USD is ultimately bearer tokens. Yes, those tokens can be optimized away as entries on a balance sheet when held by a large entity. But USD is a token system, not a payment network. Bitcoin is the opposite.

USD cash is (paper bills and coins), not digital USD. Bitcoin is a digital bearer token system. As a side note, it wouldn't be very hard to replicate a cash system for Bitcoin, if there was an entity responsible for emitting and redeeming cash for digital Bitcoin (a bit like the US Mint but for Bitcoin).

8. yieldcrv ◴[] No.42931623{4}[source]
thanks! yes I mean to check on bitcoin after major network upgrades like Taproot. okay that article was last updated 10 months, how is that panning out with standardized protocols and wallet integration and issuance?

I’m curious where the communities about this are, or are nowadays

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9. toenail ◴[] No.42934191{5}[source]
I personally have no need for "stable" assets, so I don't know more than that they exist.
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10. npoc ◴[] No.42948064{6}[source]
Same here. I'd rather hold and use an asset that unstably increases in value greatly over time, than one which continuously goes down in value to 0 (all fiat currencies go to zero eventually)