←back to thread

The withering dream of a cheap American electric car

(www.wsj.com)
152 points voisin | 6 comments | 17 Nov 24 23:52 UTC | HN request time: 0.001s | source | bottom
Show context
bartvk ◴[18 Nov 24 00:05 UTC] No.42168473[source]▶
https://archive.ph/9oIT4

I wish it would have adjusted for inflation. One quote: "The average transaction price for a new vehicle sold in the U.S. last month was $48,623, according to Kelley Blue Book, roughly $10,000 higher than in 2019, before the pandemic." However, about 9200 euros of that is due to inflation according to this calculator: https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

That's a nitpick though. All in all, an interesting article, which can be summarized as: the EV car market is lacking demand, and car makers definitely don't want to make cheap EVs since it's already so hard.

replies(6): >>42168514 #>>42168570 #>>42168574 #>>42168580 #>>42174015 #>>42174403 #
rootusrootus ◴[18 Nov 24 00:10 UTC] No.42168514[source]▶
> the EV car market is lacking demand

There is scant evidence for this. Every time prices improve, sales surge. Sounds like the demand is there, but price matters. As it always has.

replies(5): >>42168553 #>>42168564 #>>42168764 #>>42173130 #>>42174414 #
vundercind ◴[18 Nov 24 15:20 UTC] No.42173130[source]▶
I can't make great use of a full EV but would love more AWD PHEV options, of which there are currently few and they're mostly very expensive. A PHEV can be my everything-car that runs entirely on electricity for 90% of trips. I assume there's some reason they're not a more widely-supported option, but damn, I wish they were more common.
replies(7): >>42173295 #>>42173313 #>>42173354 #>>42173428 #>>42173878 #>>42174045 #>>42174402 #
1. Kudos ◴[18 Nov 24 15:43 UTC] No.42173428{3}[source]▶
From what I've read most PHEVs tend to have really bad batteries that are unreliable, complicated and expensive to replace. It makes sense that they cut corners when there's a whole other powertrain to mask it.
replies(2): >>42173732 #>>42176240 #
2. unregistereddev ◴[18 Nov 24 16:09 UTC] No.42173732[source]▶
Is there somewhere I can find more info on this? Car enthusiast here who is genuinely interested in learning.

My impressions had been that it largely mirrors the EV market: A few early PHEV models (such as the BMW i3) had poor battery management leading to unreliable battery packs. This was fixed in subsequent generations and is not a problem unless you are scraping the bottom of the used market. That's much the same as how EV batteries are generally reliable unless you buy early versions of certain problematic models (particularly the Nissan Leaf).

replies(2): >>42173880 #>>42173891 #
3. MaKey ◴[18 Nov 24 16:20 UTC] No.42173880[source]▶
> My impressions had been that it largely mirrors the EV market: A few early PHEV models (such as the BMW i3) had poor battery management leading to unreliable battery packs.

BMW i3 owner here. The i3 never had such issues and has been praised for its overall great engineering (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjPIuLz5VFI and https://evclinic.eu/2024/11/03/which-used-ev-to-buy-a-beginn...). It is also not a PHEV but an EV that had an option for a range extender.

4. Kudos ◴[18 Nov 24 16:21 UTC] No.42173891[source]▶
These guys do a lot of work on ICE, EVs and Hybrids, scroll to the end where they discuss Hybrids https://evclinic.eu/2024/11/03/which-used-ev-to-buy-a-beginn...
5. numpad0 ◴[18 Nov 24 19:55 UTC] No.42176240[source]▶
It's Toyota cheaping out as always. They put a 1.5kWh NiMH pack in the trunk, and charge $5k for replacement. That's almost a big power bank capacity, and using that small of a battery strains it too. Cost for enclosures and control circuits don't scale with capacity so dollar/kWh figure is atrocious.

It works. People hates it. The issues with it are mostly theoretical or matters of preferences. That's hallmark Toyota, isn't it...

replies(1): >>42186130 #
6. galvan ◴[19 Nov 24 17:41 UTC] No.42186130[source]▶
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_encumbrance_of_large_au...