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152 points voisin | 9 comments | | HN request time: 0.874s | source | bottom
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bartvk ◴[] No.42168473[source]
https://archive.ph/9oIT4

I wish it would have adjusted for inflation. One quote: "The average transaction price for a new vehicle sold in the U.S. last month was $48,623, according to Kelley Blue Book, roughly $10,000 higher than in 2019, before the pandemic." However, about 9200 euros of that is due to inflation according to this calculator: https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

That's a nitpick though. All in all, an interesting article, which can be summarized as: the EV car market is lacking demand, and car makers definitely don't want to make cheap EVs since it's already so hard.

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rootusrootus ◴[] No.42168514[source]
> the EV car market is lacking demand

There is scant evidence for this. Every time prices improve, sales surge. Sounds like the demand is there, but price matters. As it always has.

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1. ToucanLoucan ◴[] No.42168764[source]
Because demand isn't the issue. The issue is a new car that isn't a budget brand is increasingly a luxury option in the United States, because, and say it with me...

Wages have been stagnant in the United States for nearly 50 years.

Every economic stat right now points to this as the core issue. Consumers are squeezed more on every last good and service, tons of services are now only available via subscriptions which inherently cost more, and despite the economy supposedly (and, actually) booming in a lot of ways, that doesn't hardly at all make it's way down to the workers either via higher wages, or via cheaper products.

This is a complicated situation that doesn't lend itself well to comments but a number of the bigger datapoints include an employment market that favored employers for the majority of the time since the 70's, the ongoing slandering not to mention outright interference on the part of employers against labor organizing, "inflation" that when you scratch the surface is just companies charging more because they can, the ongoing consolidation of enterprise resulting in monolithic companies that own dozens of brands of the same product, none of which truly compete on price, on and on and on.

There are a ton of good reasons for Americans to be broke, and a number of prominent economists have been ringing alarm bells for decades now that all of these things coming together is going to stall the economy cold and send us into the... by my count, fourth once-in-a-lifetime economic crisis I've experienced.

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2. MrHamburger ◴[] No.42170529[source]
So if people would have money, there would be a demand. His point still stands.
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3. ToucanLoucan ◴[] No.42172937[source]
I mean I think the distinction between "goods that are not wanted" and "goods that are wanted but are not affordable" is a significant one, but if you want to stick strictly to the terms of art in economics, then yes I suppose you're correct. And I didn't mean to argue his point, but rather to reinforce it. If goods, when they become cheaper, suddenly start moving again, then the goods themselves aren't really the issue.

And I mean, this is exactly 100% my experience currently. Our sedan could use replacement, it's about to hit the 200k miles mark, and given it's primarily used by my wife for inter-town transit, I would happily buy her an electric car, but a new electric car is hopelessly out of our reach financially. And I make six figures!

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4. Workaccount2 ◴[] No.42173065[source]
>Wages have been stagnant in the United States for nearly 50 years.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CES0500000003

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0252881500A

There simply isn't data to back this up.

What you are referring to is capital gains (CEO pay) compared to hourly pay (employee pay), which is a misleading apples to oranges comparison.

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5. PittleyDunkin ◴[] No.42173151[source]
> What you are referring to is capital gains (CEO pay) compared to hourly pay (employee pay), which is a misleading apples to oranges comparison.

I assumed it was the infamous wage vs productivity chart.

https://www.epi.org/productivity-pay-gap/

This certainly aligns a lot better with what they're saying than talking about executive pay (though I'm sure that's also part of the problem).

6. ToucanLoucan ◴[] No.42173281[source]
No, I'm talking about the stagnant wages: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2018/08/07/for-most-...

Though, I don't think it's possible to talk about this without also talking about the ludicrous salaries now drawn by the executives either.

7. _huayra_ ◴[] No.42173525[source]
> There simply isn't data to back this up.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q

Your nominal charts are extremely misleading. Real wages have gone up about 10% since the GFC. Is it up? Yeah, but that is quite a tiny amount annually, not even an additional pack of gum.

8. MrHamburger ◴[] No.42174856{3}[source]
No it is exactly the same. If people can't afford to live in mansions, then it makes no sense to build them. Nobody will buy it. It is a demand problem.
9. redwall_hp ◴[] No.42175789{3}[source]
A car is an inelastic good that is priced beyond what the market can actually bear. This is why the used market is so insane: people make do with a secondary market because they need the good but can't afford it on the actual market. And now there's a supply crunch on that secondary market, because the primary one has risen so much.