Tesla has the highest fatal accident rate of all auto brands, study finds

Am I the only one that is not excited about the next four years being constant banter of this nature? I loathe it. Nothing personal against your comment but the new administration hasn't even gone into office and I cannot get away from this.

They have already announced what they are going to do, with the pro-Trump side saying he's not serious or will mellow out the plan before he takes office, and the anti-Trump side saying he will do exactly what he says he's going to do.

Basically a repeat of 2016.

I'm actually not bantering.

I'm also jaded by the constant snark I/we have to resort to to cope and disconnect from the insanity that is today's world

not a repeat of 2016 at all. he's got every lever of the government at his disposal. stacked supreme court, three branches of government on his side. hiring the worst people for every job possible and hiring only for fealty to him.

this will be much worse than 2016.

They are like this literally any time a Republican is in the White House. They were like this when Dubya was President too, even though today they act like he's some sort of elder statesman just because he hates Trump.

>> but the new administration hasn't even gone into office and I cannot get away from this.

Well, it cuts both ways. New administration should not be talking till they are in office.

These people have been inundated with the drivel of a billion dollar propaganda machine run by the most expensive campaign in history.

It's gonna take a while before they're back to normal again. I've heard so many "office of government efficiency" jokes in the last week I am tired of it too. But, in their defense if all you hear is how this administration is going to be the fourth reich (lol), destroy the country (lol), introduce fascism (lol), kill people (lol), etc you're going to react in a sarcastic way to anything you can grasp onto.

Though tbf, again, "office of government efficiency" seems like an oxymoron.

We’ve had them in office before, plus plenty of public statements over the last 10 years.

It’s not exactly baseless speculation. People have things to base their guesses on.

Try not to dismiss my comment for what it is. I'm not taking a stance on political affiliation or preference. I'm trying to highlight a behavior that is the result of elections of recent past. I'm not excited about another 4 years where communication diminishes to snarky comments that point finger at the side they oppose. It makes me want to just go outside and smell the fresh air.

I come to HN for substantial conversation, not this elementary unsubstantial conversation.

Respectfully, why not? That's the whole point of campaigning. I seriously hope an incoming administration has a plan before they get to office. "I wouldn't change anything" fortunately doesn't seem to win elections when everything's sideways.

Elon chose the name to be a joke.

You’re accusing the wrong side for making a mockery of government institutions.

With that in mind, "Am I the only one..." is not substantial conversation, because it is rarely the case where one person is the only one who holds a certain viewpoint.

You are not alone in this sentiment. It is beyond the pale that the denizens of a 'hacker forum' are often so narrow-minded when it comes to engaging those who think outside of the personal zone of ideological preference. The same people who have been yammering about the importance of 'diversity' are dead set against diversity of opinion. Grow up, folks, get outside your comfort zone and engage some of those deplorables, irredeemables, garbage, rednecks, hillbillies and bible thumpers instead of howling along with the masses. Go ahead and try, you may find they are more like you than you've been told by the chattering classes. Sure you'll have disagreements over certain things but that does not make them the evil monsters your moral mentors have been claiming they are. Just... grow up.

You may wish to revisit your timelines. COVID-19 and the associated widespread shutdowns occurred throughout 2020 and 2021. The national debt (e.g. the thing the "money printing" goes toward) rose by a staggering $8.4T from 2017-2021 and only $4.3T from 2021-.

Your presumption that it was snarky banter and not a deductive prediction based on publicly documented behavior is itself a political stance and affiliation.

What if we use Trump's actual words?

Can you mention one thing that Trump or Musk ever did out of altruism?

I don't think GP was talking about ordinary people, they were making a comment about a politician's declared plans.

What? Dubya was selected by the Supreme Court. He started a war after peddling bullshit evidence in front of the whole world. Dubya was and is a piece of shit.

It is a Doge coin joke, right?

edit: But then again P.A.T.R.I.O.T act etc is a thing so hard to tell if actual joke or just going with how US politicians like to be witty while naming stuff.

Unfortunately complex systems cannot be fixed by simply going full forward in the opposite direction of a bad direction.

And yet we not only want to revert any decision that was made that we think correlates with an unhappy situation, we also want to choose people who are as different as possible from the guys we think are responsible for the unwanted status quo. So if the current politicians are serious people who talk in an articulate way we conclude that seriousness is a problem, because it's two faced. We conclude that being articulated is a problem because it's judgemental, it's a symbol of being elites.

If you conclude that serious looking articulated people are two-faced lying elites there are many alternatives in a multidimensional solution space. You could desire honest serious elites, or honest serious commoners, or many variations on the theme.

But no, we obviously want to get exactly the opposite, because that's the monodimensional thing to do! It's simpler. Let's pick the exact opposite of the people we have. Current people are too serious? Let's pick an unserious person. The current elites are too educated? Let's pick people that don't have formal education and/or that actively denigrate higher education. Etc etc.

I understand the human urge to flip tables. But if I stop thinking about it for a moment, I don't think the strategy is good. In rare cases it might be the necessary strategy, but in most cases it's destroying something that has plenty room for improvement and replace it with something that is much worse and will take even longer to improve over the previous one

I really can't take such hyperbolic rhetoric seriously.

I had someone try to claim we had "complete lockdown for years", which is news to me. We had one year of sporadically enforced lockdown-ish measures. Although, we did go out to eat a few times.

Hell, I bought a house during end of 2020/beginning of 2021. By the time we closed, I was back in office, we weren't wearing masks, and people didn't seem too concerned.

Or perhaps he just does it for ego and visibility.

It's hard to tell which of these two options is more likely. 4d chess or simple billionaire egomania ?

Campaigning is customarily done before elections, not after.

It sucks for everyone. What you want us to do? Pretend it ain't so?

Trump set up a whole university!

> I loathe it

They are planning to appoint a nutjob who has publicly that he admitted cutting off the heads of whale carcasses with a chainsaw and dumping dead bears in the Central Park for "fun". Presumably he is also consuming those rotting animals carcasses that he keeps finding somehow (how else do you get brain worms?) to be the new US health secretary.

Seriously... what else do you need to know?

What's 4D chess about saying they'll diminish the government capacity to regulate their business and proceeding to doing so? It doesn't take an evil genius master plan to go about that.

> engage some of those deplorables, irredeemables, garbage, rednecks, hillbillies and bible thumpers instead of howling along with the masses

You are aware that no one in this thread has called anyone deplorable, irredeemable, garbage, a redneck, a hillbilly, or a bible thumper, right?

Your aggrievement and imagined slights is precisely how people like Trump and Musk manipulate you. And apparently the manipulation works really well.

Trump is not your retribution. Trump doesn't care about America. Trump doesn't care about Americans. Trump only cares about himself.

As a non-american watching the election, this was one of the reasons I didn't want the result to be the way it went. Just for having to hear about it constantly from everywhere.

Hacker News' eventual death started the moment it joined the hysteria over the Lab Leak Theory. Since then it has trended more and more to be like Reddit, with ideological tribal concerns occupying an increasingly large mindshare. This drives away people who want to have earnest conversations in good faith, giving even more power to the ideologues. It will be a long death spiral but you can see it happening day by day.

> Unfortunately complex systems cannot be fixed by simply going full forward in the opposite direction of a bad direction.

Tell that to gradient descent.

(Though the step sizes are a bit shorter than four years)

Two wars, but who’s counting?

Musk seems quite well meaning. Neuralink, the early Starlink donated to Ukraine, trying to move the world to Solar/electric etc.

Trump... dunno.

No, we need more SNL trump impressions, Trump pundits, and corny jokes

Can't be much more worse than an off topic comment.

I'm not sure what hysteria about lab leaks? I mean maybe it did, maybe it didn't.

He had both chambers in 2016 too, on similarly narrow majorities. The hiring has consistently been for allegiance. The court has changed a little. One thing you don't mention that is perhaps the biggest thing is temperance for reelection. But overall, I don't see much reason that it will be that much different from last time. Talking about things being much worse seems like an emotional statement.

Being right or wrong is often irrelevant to the question of “does it belong on HN?”

It always falls in the middle. There's a reason politicians are known as liars. Of course they won't do everything they claim on the campaign trail.

Let's not pretend everyone is aghast at the goals of this administration. We just had an election and these viewpoints resoundingly won the day.

A non-trivial component to this election was this constant, smug nagging. "We know better, you're all so stupid".

If you turn out to be right, enjoy your smug "I told you so", but until then - these views are a minority and are very tiring to constantly see/hear/read.

The idea that the novel coronavirus didn't escape from the local coronavirus R&D laboratory never had anywhere near enough evidence to be credible.

It was pretty much the WHO simply repeating the claims of the Chinese government, who had already tried to cover up the outbreak (with any warnings sent to the WHO coming from Taiwan instead).

It was about as believable as the completely baseless claims that the emergency use authorised vaccine was safe and effective.

I’m glad you used the word snark since that exact word in the HN guidelines

> Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine. Edit out swipes.

That makes no sense

The genius would lie in planning that in advance. You'd need to buy Twitter for quite a lot of money, use it to influence elections or at least give the impression that you'd been instrumental in influencing the election so that the new president will want to give you a new department with a funny name you made up.

I don't know man, my Occam's razor cuts another way.

Why is tiring to hear a minority especially in this forum?

Yes, it will be annoying to have people make jokes about the people in overwhelming position of power.

Who knows ? Maybe it won't even be possible for the whole four years ?

I’ve engaged with these people a good bit actually. They’re very normal people, in that they largely don’t know much about politics but have strong opinions.

Your browser has an X button (I suspect)

It wouldn't be of it was not just different variations of "Hitler Hitler Hitler, Russia Russia Russia!"

We've been hearing how doomed democracy is for the better part of 10 years now. It's really old...

Because you are sharing legacy media's views. We can turn on a tv for that.

He has respect and years of experience in this field and a strong vision. Your talking points are things we might here on the view.

Campaigning is done right happens between elections. In most countries you only have 4/6 weeks. As Kim Campbell of Canada famously said an election is not the time to debate issues. Now the US has a much longer campaign period.. and elections every 2 years. They are always campaigning.

I don't know man?

The vote was like 50.1 to 48.2 at latest (accurate) count. Which is terrible news to everyone. Because, unless my math is wrong, that means there were more people who were so unmoved by either party that they couldn't be arsed to go out and vote, than there were voters for either party.

And all those people are pissed off.

Personally, I think stuff like comments on HN and Twitter are gonna be a good pressure valve over the next few years. Maybe even some Onion, Saturday Night Live and Daily Show for those masses. Because if those people ever get what they perceive to be a reason? I mean, they've already shown fairly consistently that they're no longer interested in the whole non-violent democratic norm of voting thing. And if a guy like Trump can't even bring them out, that means they're not at all interested in anything either side is selling.

After looking at those numbers, I guess I just wouldn't be so sure that the people making these comments are liberals. Or even independents for that matter. Independents on the sidelines are, at least, reasonable and vote. What we have boiling outside the stadium, so to speak, is something different entirely. And if they'll satisfy themselves yelling insults at the people inside the stadium then we should all probably let them. Don't make the mistake of thinking it's a bad thing.

If a lion starts chewing on your football, let it have the football. Don't be foolish. Just back away and go get another ball to continue your game with the opposing team.

Depends on where you lived. In some places they enforced longer lock downs and required vaccines to eat in public and this went on for years. Texas was different compared to Minnesota for example. Canada was locked down for a long time.. New Zealand too.

Congrats on the house.

Many other countries have that. It’s like not giving you admin credentials before you contract start. But there’s no credential, the admin power comes from talking. And as a manager of managers, they has to restrain themselfes.

In fairness, we can turn on a tv for any view. There's like a gazillion channels. Just pick your poison.

Doesn’t Fox News routinely get the highest ratings too?

Um, the DOGE is rather a necessity about now.

The USA is ~$36 TRILLION in debt. Interest payments are now consuming ~20% of tax revenue...more than the defense budget. That's insane!

Musk is also absolutely correct about over-regulation and government bureaucracy stifling innovation and economic growth.

Then there's the amazing incompetence often displayed by the current admin... Witness Afghanistan, among many other examples.

Given a two party system, I can only think this election outcome was better than the alternative!

Not only do other HN commenters largely agree that it belongs to HN, they decided that it deserves to be the top comment on this discussion, at the time I authored this comment

> You'd need to buy Twitter for quite a lot of money

On the other hand, if he had been forced to buy Twitter against his better judgement, he may have an axe to grind against the "overbearing" administrative state and use the tools at hand to achieve his ends. No evil genius required, just happenstance and humans seeing patterns in chaos.

In this context, diversity refers to characteristics, not to differences of opinion. That said, diverse thinking can be valuable when used for prosocial purposes.

> legacy media

Doesn't Fox News have the highest viewer numbers of any of the news stations? What fraction of local news stations are owned by Sinclair? I don't think you get to call "legacy media" out for being liberal when such a large part is not.

only some special minorities can be heard while others are shut down

That's a pretty simplistic analysis. People largely voted on immigration and inflation. You can't infer anything about what they thought on other issues.

I hope that the incoming President is not campaigning at this time, nor at any time in the future.

Which is sad for someone who has been here for well over a decade. I never came here for political banter, I came for technical discussion. Facts, truths and subject matter experts. HN is slowly becoming less concentrated version of that.

What do I need to know? Tech oriented, factually grounded discussion. The thing I come here for that allows me to partially escape reality and enjoy the finer things in life. I can tune into Fox, CNN, Facebook, or a myriad of places for political banter.

I'm not Nielsen Ratings or anything, but that would be consistent with what I would think. Fox viewers being older, and older being consistent with tv viewers. Younger being consistent with TikTok, YouTube, InstaFaceTwit intake.

Pretending that “politics” exists as something separate or invasive is not only ignorant, it’s dangerous.

If this were a thread about IBM machines of the 1930s, would it be playing “politics” to note that those machines were sold to Nazis and supported by IBM through sub-contractors even while we were at war with them? Is it crossing a line to mention they were used to facilitate the Holocaust?

Politicians bend the truth or promise what they are later unable to deliver (and often had no chance of delivering). But I think Trump usually tries to deliver on whatever he said in the campaign (like in 2016), like you can expect wide reaching tariffs in January or February (especially since half-way competent advisors, congress, and the courts are probably not going to moderate him as much this time).

Maybe make any computer purchases in December just to be safe.

Being “forced” to honor a contract that you yourself entered and legally bound yourself to. The horror, the dishonor, the overreach of justice!

"I don't want to discuss politics" when it's directly related to the topic at hand, is a complaint from the decadent class. It affects peoples lives, it's relevant, it's entirely plausible given the situation.

People are going to have to deal with the presence of politics in regular life for the unforeseen future, because the luxury of avoiding politics is generally the sign of having good governance.

A certain faction always think the rule on keeping politics out of forums doesn't apply to them, because their politics are too correct and important. I experience this problem in groupchats where the very people who furiously demanded people not bring politics into the group and to make the group politics-free routinely push their own politics. They say their politics are too important to not bring up.

These same people LEFT other groups dedicated to politics so presumably if others respond in kind by discussing their own politics, they will leave the last groupchats too. This is why a certain faction is such an echo chamber. Incidentally, I was just banned from r/Archaeology for arguing that a post arguing that archeologists should prepare to fight the fascist takeover was too political.

Every US President is constantly campaigning. Not necessarily for his own re-election but to create public pressure on Congress to support his agenda, and then to get votes for his endorsed successor.

Oh, you’ll be hearing it for much longer. Greetings from Germany.

To expand your last paragraph, I've been wondering about how the whole thing will affect geo-politics (as well as national politics). I wonder if there's a forum of people doing thinking about all possible scenarios. Things like the world pivoting towards China because, hey, Xi is a despot, but at least he isn't volatile...

The joke was, when Putin invaded Ukraine everyone turned from epidemiology experts into geo-political experts. I wonder where the proper experts are now.

> trying to move the world to Solar/electric etc.

Is he, really? He recently announced that he supports Trump's position of getting rid on EV subsidies, stating that it hurts Tesla's competition more.

There were some people (former staff of his) openly asking him, before the election, to denounce Trump. He didn't do that. November 6, he issued a congratulations to Trump. A piece of shit and a coward .

That would be pretty ironic if Trump is able to deliver more on his promises than other politicians.

Just adding that Mudk has shown that he is willing to completely ignore ethics and many times (almost?) cross the line of legality too.

Paying people to vote for Trump

Manipulating the stock market

Manipulated the crypto market multiple times

Tried to force Tesla employees to go to work during Covid

You oppose moving away for inflammatory seed oil that is known to cause cancer? You oppose removing incentives that have drug companies writing health policy? People with gilbert's syndrome are happy to remove fluoride from the drinking water.

Educate yourself before someone else does and sells you short.

Fluoride can damage the liver in a number of ways, including: Liver function enzymes: Fluoride can increase the activity of liver enzymes like transaminases and phosphatases, which can indicate liver damage. Liver cell membrane: Fluoride can rupture the liver cell membrane. Mitochondrial damage: Fluoride can damage mitochondria in liver cells. Protein synthesis: Fluoride can prevent the liver from producing important proteins like albumin and clotting factors. Glucose metabolism: Fluoride can disrupt the liver's ability to regulate glucose metabolism, which can lead to metabolic disorders like diabetes. Histological changes: Fluoride can cause histological changes in the liver. Fluoride is a small, active molecule that can easily enter cells and cause damage to tissues and organs. Studies have shown that fluoride exposure can cause liver damage in a variety of animals, including rats, mice, goats, and cattle. To treat fluoride toxicity, you can try: Calcium chloride: Lavage with a 1-5% calcium chloride solution to bind the fluoride in the stomach. This is most effective when done within an hour of ingestion. Hemodialysis: For critically ill patients who don't respond to other treatments.

Fox has the youngest demo (500,000 for Jessie Watters) and most viewers. At night or during the day. Interesting cnbc has the oldest audience and least. Gutfeld crushes all late night shows (Tonight show, Late Show, Kimmel).

https://www.newsweek.com/chart-shows-network-ratings-2024-el...

Wait, when you see someone say "department of government efficiency" and mention corruption you hear "hitler hitler hitler"?

Maybe you're just really tired of hearing any criticism of blatant corruption and I'm sorry you're feeling that way. I bet that feels really discouraging and tedious and adversarial.

To me this comment reads as a callout of corruption, not fascism. The hitler criticisms you mentioned, in my experience, have been for things like the maga hats with the nazi font, the republican convention stage in the shape of the SS glyph, and the claim that immigrants are watering down the proper American bloodlines.

To your other request that people stop sharing their concerns: just because a lot of people vote for something doesn't mean it's inherently ethical nor does it mean people should be silenced. My assumption is most people don't want corruption or abuse or racism or fascism; if you think that too then you might have better success helping people understand why they are mistaken about what looks like corruption instead of telling people to just stop sharing opinions you're personally tired of reading.

Is this chatgpt copypasta at the end?

Regardless, this kind of straw man argument isn't very convincing. You can be against someone's stated policies while holding either supporting or opposing views on any particular topic; implying otherwise is baffling since it would require someone to PERFECTLY align with every opinion you have. Thinking RFK will be a good or bad leader has nothing to do with if someone opposes "moving away from seed oils".

Why would it be ironic? He has less regard for the political group and general stability than a more run of the mill politician and now there is explicit immunity for anything he wants to do, like when he sold classified documents but "declassified them in his mind" right before once he got caught.

We watched four years of this already, including a rally with gallows being built in the crowd being told to march on the Capitol (he claims figuratively, and everyone just misunderstood, despite all the posts and planning and travel and tour groups). Last time it was absurd news headline after headline just to distract from the other things going on. We saw some bonkers stuff that would have disqualified other candidates in the past (or at least most candidates probably thought it would).

At this point I think his promises are easier to deliver on and he doesn't care about (and has been made immune from) the consequences that usually temper a politician's ability to deliver. Tariffs, no health plan, another wall (remember when he pardoned bannon for stealing the money they raised for the wall?), "stopping the war in Ukraine" but without a free Ukraine at the end, and decimating government regulatory agencies.

The weirdest part of this narrative for me is how the supporters say he wont do what he promises and the detractors fear he will. I don't know enough history to know if that is common but it sure feels backwards to me.

They are laying low.

My guess is that we’ve witnessed the end of the post Cold War American hegemony. Welcome to chaos.

Seed oil removal is part of his agenda. If you like that idea things may be better than what the media is selling you. The dead bear is part of an entertaining story. At most you could say he initially didn't to waste the meat but lost track of time hunting birds then had to meet someone for dinner in New York before boarding a flight an hour later. He creately solved the issue.

There is no leaving out politics. Everything is political.

Ah great, he doubles down on it. Good stuff.

Ever heard of Chestertons fence? Coming into a government for over 300 million people without the faintest clue how it works, removing stuff that doesn’t look too useful is the worst possible strategy to improve efficiency. You don’t renovate with a wrecking ball.

It doesn’t suck for the majority of people in the country. For them, it’s what they’d love to see.

Funnily enough, comments like yours are also what they’d love to see. Seeing leftists in tears over the policy changes we’re going to see is a great form of entertainment for many people.

I love the argument you’re making. If you’re against socialist policies, it serves as indication you don’t like the things I find good.

Please don’t ask me to fund anyone else’s EV purchase. It doesn’t matter to me one bit who’s in office to get rid of that evil policy, I’d still love it.

Yeah that's why the second half of my comment was the dimensionality of the space

It will suck soon enough for those thick enough to be gleeful about it now.

It doesn't take genius for an opportunistic rich person to expand their power and wealth. You're just creating a narrative from a string of cherry picked events. The Twitter acquisition also destroyed a ton of value.

Inflation was caused by increased government spending, no?

No, fox News isn't the highest. ABC,CBS and NBC News have more viewers.

It is not a department.

"The weirdest part of this narrative for me is how the supporters say he wont do what he promises and the detractors fear he will. I don't know enough history to know if that is common but it sure feels backwards to me."

That's pretty common on all highly polarized topics. Happens all the time with stuff like democrat candidates and firearms seizures - supporters walking it back and detractors believing ever word.

“Young” among tv viewers is different from “young” among social media tiktok’ers. The article you linked actually says that exact thing:

> “suggesting younger voters were either less engaged, or getting their election night information from other sources such as social media and at-home streaming, which are not tracked by Nielsen.”

Young people won’t watch tv unless there’s a game or tv series on they’re interested in. Even then, a lot of them will DVR it on Hulu or something. If you want those eyeballs, you’re going to need to be creative. And tv networks can’t be as creative as instaFaceSnap, Netflix and TikTwitGram.

Indeed, it's a Presidential advisory commission.

To create a federal executive department you need an act of Congress which is not very efficient.

It's much more efficient to just use the name "department" and bet on the chance that nobody would care about words, meanings, facts and rules.

The last COVID stimulus package added from 1 to 4% to inflation, but that was transitory. The wider rise was largely due to other factors such as supply chain disruptions from the pandemic and Russia's invasion of Ukraine. The latter significantly raised oil prices worldwide which in turn raised costs for all kinds of things.

Here's an article that covers a lot of the factors [1].

[1] https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2024/joe-biden-kamala-...

Are you a betting man? I’d be happy to have a large wager with you about that.

We're all making bets all the time. I am positioned as I wish to be. Godspeed to you and your assets.

> For them, it’s what they’d love to see.

Apparently not: https://www.axios.com/2024/11/15/trump-elon-musk-focus-group...

There is no leaving out politics as long as it aligns with a certain political spectrum otherwise it's no politics.

Combined? Fox takes all of the top 10 positions in overall/demo group. Top among the youth / all / daytime / nighttime.

Trump is probably the first politician in history where supporters claim he isn’t going to do what he says he is going to do (“take Trump seriously, not literally!”) while his detractors claim that he is. It’s already a weird spot in history.

Any other left wing propaganda you’d want me to know of?

That's pretty common on all highly polarized topics. Happens all the time with stuff like democrat candidates and firearms seizures - supporters walking it back and detractors believing every word.

A source with less partisan politics involved:

https://mitsloan.mit.edu/ideas-made-to-matter/federal-spendi...

And he ran a charity!

https://www.forbes.com/sites/danalexander/2017/06/06/how-don...

I do agree about his view on water fluoridation. So what? That doesn't make him any less of an unhinged lunatic. Again, I'm not even talking about his specific views or qualifications at all only his personal behaviour and character.

You just have to hear it and I can't visit the city I was born in, so you will keep hearing it.

Sorry, how does your question relate to my comment?

I've genuinely never seen "hysteria" from the people talking about the lab leak theory. The closest I've seen is from people who were extremely keen for no one to mention the theory. Not because of some cover-up, but I think just because that was what everyone was telling everyone else to do, hysteria-style.

I trust a survey of economists over a random study. That study might be right, but it also might be wrong, and I don't have the expertise to say which.

when was the last time this happened at the presidential level?