In the real world you congregate with like-minded people. The same applies to my social media timeline. And I use Mastodon by the way, which doesn't have an algorithm driven timeline.
Also, X does provide community based fact checking too, which works best when there are representatives from all sides participating.
Shutting down twitter, rumble, and substack would be a massacre for independent media right now. Elon could make an offer that couldn't be refused on the other two, and turn on the censorship harder than Facebook.
The right-wing free speech heel turn is always the same: when you censor, you're trying to prevent the free expression of ideas, when we censor, we're trying to prevent the "support" of terrorism. Lèse-majesté is always around the corner.
Here’s how I see it: imagine you like going to a restaurant for dinner fairly often. Recently, a group of rowdy patrons has started coming in, getting drunk, and making all kinds of noise. Strangely, the restaurant seems to encourage their behavior. You don’t love this—you’re just trying to enjoy a nice dinner and some casual conversation. So, you leave and don’t come back.
You can’t force the restaurant to calm down or kick out the rowdy patrons. They should be allowed to serve whomever they want. Luckily, you’re also not forced to endure their actions.
But yeah, if there is a truly distributed system, that had facilities and incentives which support and even promote diverse interactions, that'd be even better.
I disagree. I think the definition of hate and extremism has been warped to encompass things that aren't either of those things. And that's part of the problem. The rhetoric has become so hyperbolic that we're having a hard time coexisting.
The answer is for us to walk that back, and encourage actual dialogue, not run into our own safe bunkers.
You can talk to the people at your table in a restaurant, and it doesn't matter if the table beside you is talking about something you disagree with. The food tastes the same.
Also, maybe I'm from a different generation, but the trolls can be very easily ignored. What do I care is some no name account is posting some stupid content somewhere on X? I already know which people I want to follow. The rest I don't care about.
We should each follow our own moral compass, and oppose viewpoints that we find horrific. But trying to systematically stamp out disagreeable ideas, rather than to influence people with better ideas, is a road to hell.
Hiding in our own echo-chambers does not solve any real problems, and it creates new ones.
Online communities have existed for over four decades now and we still haven't solved these problems.
The definitions of hate and extremism are inherently tied to personal values. Many people perceive much of the speech on X as hateful and extremist because it directly contradicts their core values, not because they're arbitrarily expanding those definitions.
> You can talk to the people at your table in a restaurant, and it doesn't matter if the table beside you is talking about something you disagree with. The food tastes the same.
This analogy only works if everyone abides by a social contract. that’s often not the case on X. It’s like if the people at the next table overheard you, didn’t like what you said, and decided to come over and spit in your food. That’s the experience many people have on X.
The beautiful thing about digital graffiti is that you can remove it instantly, and return to an unmarred environment. As long as such tools are provided to each person, those who enjoy graffiti can leave it in place too. Win-Win.
We do need a new vision, with people embracing and promoting digital maturity. Both in a reduction of trolling, and in a stronger resilience against it. Because not everything that is objectionable, is graffiti. You should not hate your neighbor because he has a different political sign on his front yard during election season. We have to stop equating everything that is objectionable, as a catastrophic, intolerable insult.
Anything that X does which favors right-wing opinions, and censors or diminishes left-wing opinions, I oppose. I'm for free speech, and all of us being in the same proximity to hash out our differences, and accept that there will be some which always remain.
I firmly believe his posture with twitter has been because 1) it's a fun place for him and it was obviously a money losing purchase* so he might as well have that fun, and 2) his level of censorship is something that he can use to negotiate with government over contracts or regulation.
He might even really believe in free speech, but a conceptual belief in free speech doesn't mean he'll feel obligated to personally provide it if he can make a dollar denying it. His speech will remain free no matter what happens, he's a rich guy.
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* (not unlike say the Guardian, the New Republic, Mother Jones, the Intercept, or the Atlantic, or the WaPo, aparently, and probably CNN and MSNBC at this point. They're not for making money.)
But I'm with you on the potential problems and would rather have a system that was immune to such issues. What i'm really arguing against is people who saw the previous regime as correct and just, and are looking to recreate their echo-chamber somewhere else.
Part of what it will take to create a healthy town-center, that is much better than X, is for more people to speak up for ideals of diversity and tolerance. And to fight against the very loud and angry segment of people who see censorship and authoritarian control as good things, as long as they're working in their own favor.
The problem is that Musk came in and lifted the bans on a lot of people who were removed for roughly the correct thing, community standards. And then he let those very people help him find the voices you do want in the community and shut them down. Its gone beyond just echo chamber, and now the management has a clique. That clique doesnt just hate free speech, they loathe the people that largely use such rights like journalists.
Then of course theres all the shit about compliance with foreign governments etc. Twitters going to be an amazing case study one day in the future that will likely conclude against "free speech" as Musk poorly interprets it.
My impression is that the goal isn't to uphold free speech, its never done that, its to create a safe space to be an asshole. And that if you can hold your own against the assholes, then they will find a way to abuse their position in the clique to get you banned.
Back in the day you had these coffee shops, that may or may not be partially responsible for the success of so called western civilization. People would travel across europe to visit and exchange ideas with likeminded people. Thats not what social media is. People arent having robust, intentional, intellectual discussions, they are forming tribes and attacking each other with whatever weapons are available. People wake up in the morning and check their notifications like people in the blitz looking out the window to see if their neighbors survived the night. Aiding one side or the other of the conflict should never be conflated with "promoting diverse interactions".
All the abuses you're describing, were going on previously, it was just accepted by the majority as a good-thing, because it was only hurting "Nazi's". I'm not supporting anything the current ownership does on that basis, i'm saying we should all be fighting for a new paradigm, not just recreating the old one on a new platform.
And currently, there are very few voices standing up for a healthier interaction between people with opposing views. This will take a lot more than any technological fix, it will require an attitude shift. That isn't possible if we take our respective corners, and only come out when the fight-bell rings.
Diversity of viewpoints is nonsense.
They censored cisgender as a slur.[1] They are not avoiding moderation to avoid bias.
> Also, maybe I'm from a different generation, but the trolls can be very easily ignored. What do I care is some no name account is posting some stupid content somewhere on X? I already know which people I want to follow. The rest I don't care about.
Signal to noise ratio is not a generational issue. Muted users and phrases not being muted is a common complaint. Less signal and more noise after the changes favoring paid accounts is a common complaint. And finding new accounts to follow was part of Twitter's value to others even if not you.
[1] https://techcrunch.com/2024/05/14/on-elons-whim-x-now-treats...
Diversity of viewpoints doesn't mean every viewpoint is equally valid. It means that we endure the crazies on both sides, and don't let their stupid theories prevent rational conversation and good-natured and loving people from coexisting. That is, we become more mature, and find ways to cool down the hyperbolic rhetoric -- not abandon each other.
We aren't talking about our favorite flavor of Pringles here; coexisting means the right has to abandon their principals wholesale, not just say please and thank you while politely discussing how vaccines cause 5G or whatever.
There is most definitely original content that is hateful, racist, and/or extreme on X that goes beyond the difference of policy or ethical opinions
cisgender is not a new word and predates the current culture wars
This is why Bluesky, with ATProto, appeals to me. They have made the four core components (data hosting, app view, algo feed, moderation) a pluggable system with user level choices, for what they use for each component and which they combine
One of the appealing aspects of Bluesky / ATProto is that there can be multiple fact checkers that users can subscribe to, which can have differing governance models, policies, and operations. Within the app, you can decide which ones (more than one even) at an individual level. This means we can have competition, but also echo chambers. It will be interesting to see how it works out
- I'd love to hear more points about fiscal and foreign policy.
- I want to hear what people see in country music.
- I want to know about weird bizarre facts that can only be remembered and regurgitated by an obsessed madman. Likewise, I enjoy the occasional, IMO overanalyzed dives into arts from people who are considered auteurs that goes beyond my eye and ear
- I want to attempt to understand the experiences of those in very different socioeconomical environments. immigrants, LGBT, Some dude traveling the country on train cars,
- I want to understand more about the people who represent my country. The mundane dry stuff on the day to day, not just once every 4 years in the big showdown
- I want to hear people's technical approaches to software, hardware, and anything in between
I am open to a lot of viewpoints, I will not agree with all of them. I will find some of them obnoxious and other snooty.
Why is it that when I don't want to hear stuff like "My body your choice" I'm suddenly a coddled prude who is seeking an echo chamber? I did my time shitposting on 4chan when maybe half of it was ironic. I don't want nor need to do that anymore. That well has clearly fallen fully to Poe's law and my one and only real hard line is "don't spread hate".
This line of thought is very simple: you don't get diverse viewpoints when people are scared of being doxxed, harrased, or even murdered. You're making a place less diverse by literally trying to say they are less of a person than you. Stop it.
How about we just go dictionary definition:
>denoting hostile actions motivated by intense dislike or prejudice.
can you really argue this past week, month, year. That you have not seen any dictionary-definition hate spread, promoted, and cheered for on the platform? Some by the owner himself?
Twitter isn't a commons. it's an amusement park and Musk is the manager. You don't bother trying to change a manger's mind unless you have millions to start the talk. Abandon Disneyland and try to see if Knott's or Six Flags or Funland fit your vibe more.
> it doesn't matter if the table beside you is talking about something you disagree with. The food tastes the same.
Not when they are slinging their food at me. Experiences and atmosphere are well known to alter your sense of taste. Not just smell (which is obvious, since your nose and tongue are basically connected).
It's not even arguments. They are saying the quiet parts out loud.
95M likes. This isn't some niche extremist circle to push under the rug.
if you're a no name user who barely comments, sure. Trolls have evolved beyond mean words in the last 20 years, though. They are NOT easily ignored anymore, and it only takes one doxxer to ruin your entire online presense. Or even physical.
what is it trying to replace? Straight/Heterosexual? That doesn't work for trans folk (at least not while there's still heated discussion on whether to respect their chosen gender).
And as flattering as it is. I'm '94 and I don't consider myself "new".
> And its popular usage was a part of the “current culture wars”.
Just like feminimism and masculism? or "social justice"? or Misogyny? or "Free Speech"?
Yeah, language works like that. You use what (sometimes) best communicates your thoughts
and you think any current mainstream social media will ever let us get full control of that?
And why is it fine for me to leave to another "echo chamber", but it's fine to filter myself with site features in your proposed "commons" to the point where I made an echo chamber?
No, I had centuries of ancestors fight so that question has a nigh-objective answer. I'm not going to entertain the argument to "expand my worldview". Why would I? That kind of talk is basically saying you don't respect me as a human being, so why talk with someone like that?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerrymandering
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_flight
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentrification
I think at this point you may need to review your history. There's sadly only so much I can do as a handle on a social media platform to convince someone this unaware of the powers that be.
Downvoting is a user action. There's no real gain to blame the entire community for their individual action against a single comment. Feel free to inquire if you really need to, but half the downvotes I see are pretty explicitly breaking the guidelines.