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254 points Michelangelo11 | 4 comments | | HN request time: 0.008s | source
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naming_the_user ◴[] No.42056718[source]
What comes across from the article to me is the class barrier more than the gender one - basically it's a posh person finding out what the "real world" looks like.

Shop talk and banter are fairly universal. Any difference is going to be a target. Thin bloke who doesn't look strong enough? Ginger hair? Tall guy, short guy? Weird tattoo, etc. Definitely the one black guy or the one white guy is going to get shit. But is it malicious? Almost certainly not.

The other thing, which in my experience is relatively common worldwide, is that working class communities are more accepting of male-female dynamics. In academia and in highbrow society the tendency is to basically sanitise every social interaction. When you're in an environment where that isn't happening then you can't suddenly ignore it any more.

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esperent ◴[] No.42057157[source]
> But is it malicious? Almost certainly not.

Honestly, it often will be malicious, or will quickly become malicious if you don't take it graciously. And why should you? It's not acceptable to make fun of people for being skinny, ginger, shy, black, white, female, or any other things that the in group considers non-standard for whatever weird reasons.

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kardianos ◴[] No.42063571[source]
Why? Men make fun of themselves and each other all the time. It's how we talk. It honestly isn't negative; it's almost a form of banter that tells the truth in a low-key softball way where we can all laugh. Why is banter not acceptable? Who went and took the fun out of life? I'm not talking here about purposefully mean banter or taking things too far. But come on, who made these "rules" you speak of?
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mercutio2 ◴[] No.42064567[source]
I am a man. I don’t know who this “we” is you speak of. Sure as hell isn’t me or my friends.

Assholes exist everywhere, but “we” don’t have to apologize for them or make the workplace a safer space for them.

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1. bigstrat2003 ◴[] No.42065294[source]
I'm a man, and literally every male friend I've ever had engages in this kind of banter. If you and your friends don't, you are outliers.
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2. brendoelfrendo ◴[] No.42066425[source]
I like how you've defined yourself as the norm and not the GP, even though you're both calling from your personal experience with a sample size of one.
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3. naming_the_user ◴[] No.42066551[source]
It's fascinating for me to watch these comment threads blow up, I hadn't thought this would take off so much.

It's a constant stream of "but my guys don't do this" "but my guys do do this".

It's all just rephrasing of, well, this is the highbrow culture, and this is the working class culture, and I'm in one or the other and you're abnormal.

The reality is that it's just two different worlds and where they clash things get weird.

Looking at _so many_ responses to my post, almost none of which actually have new content, makes me think this is some sort of dead internet bots vs. bots contest.

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4. mercutio2 ◴[] No.42066674{3}[source]
Only one side is making positive claims in this thread.

I never made a claim that "all men do X" or that "shop talk and banter are fairly universal". I did point out that I and my friends do not mock our friends and colleagues.

Still avoiding positive claims, but here are some normative claims:

  - I object to claiming that mocking is normal and acceptable in all groups of men
  - some, not all, working class subcultures use mocking as a shibboleth
  - this aspect of those subcultures is not a thing I think "we" should valorize