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Reflections on Palantir

(nabeelqu.substack.com)
479 points freditup | 19 comments | 16 Oct 24 02:18 UTC | HN request time: 0s | source | bottom
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ak_111 ◴[16 Oct 24 22:35 UTC] No.41864546[source]▶
Note that Palantir's moral stature isn't as grey or debatable as made in the article, it is basically clearly complicit in the genocide in Gaza.

In other words, if you read the article I would add one more bucket to the three categories the author provided to classify palantir's work - genocide assistance.

from https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/us-jd-vance-peter-thiel-f...

""" Not only did it provide information to the US military during the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan, but over the past 10 months in particular, Palantir has provided AI-powered military and surveillance technology support to the Israelis in its war on Gaza.

It has, in the words of Palantir's co-founder Alex Karp, been involved in "crucial operations in Israel".

Palantir says it offers defence technologies that are “mission-tested capabilities, forged in the field” to deliver “a tactical edge - by land, air, sea and space”.

These capabilities include supplying Israel’s military and intelligence agencies with the data to fire missiles at specific targets in Gaza - be it inside homes or in moving vehicles. """

replies(7): >>41864914 #>>41864998 #>>41865059 #>>41865219 #>>41865493 #>>41868070 #>>41869144 #
1. mulcahey ◴[16 Oct 24 23:24 UTC] No.41864914[source]▶
The war in Gaza is a moral gray area
replies(1): >>41865024 #
2. pphysch ◴[16 Oct 24 23:43 UTC] No.41865024[source]▶
To what extent is repeated mass-murder of civilians, total destruction of healthcare and education systems, etc. part of the "moral gray area"? That's just not a serious argument.

You can be pro-Israel without pretending to hold humanist values and so on.

replies(1): >>41865426 #
3. dralley ◴[17 Oct 24 01:00 UTC] No.41865426[source]▶
If you have a military enemy that blatantly hides itself within civilian areas and builds its underground infrastructure underneath civilian infrastructure, and that military enemy kills 1200 of your citizens in an attack, that creates a fair bit of moral ambiguity.
replies(7): >>41865481 #>>41865828 #>>41868147 #>>41868261 #>>41869288 #>>41871027 #>>41871043 #
4. ks2048 ◴[17 Oct 24 01:10 UTC] No.41865481{3}[source]▶
Imagine the reaction to Palestinians blowing up a residential Israeli apartment building with hundreds of civilians inside and justifying it by saying they wanted to kill an IDF member inside.
replies(1): >>41866663 #
5. pazimzadeh ◴[17 Oct 24 02:19 UTC] No.41865828{3}[source]▶
You would start by not sending them money. Unless of course you needed a justification for your political/expansionist goals.

https://archive.ph/2023.10.14-033824/https://www.haaretz.com...

https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/hamas-israels-own-creation/

Anyway, the idea of embedding military targets within civilian populations is also not exclusive to one side:

https://www.haaretz.com/2012-06-09/ty-article/.premium/does-...

Neither is the use of terror:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

https://web.archive.org/web/20121226235336/http://www.foreig...

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2019/02/no-justifica...

https://www.thetorah.com/article/israels-incomplete-conquest...

replies(1): >>41866578 #
6. ArtixFox ◴[17 Oct 24 05:05 UTC] No.41866578{4}[source]▶
sooo israel should use time travel? the situation right now is a fucked up war between two bloodthirsty groups. I dont think this is the right time to think of inventing time machines...
replies(1): >>41873796 #
7. shiroiushi ◴[17 Oct 24 05:26 UTC] No.41866663{4}[source]▶
If the IDF member is shooting at them from the apartment building, then it becomes a valid military target. This is very clearly spelled out in the Geneva conventions.
replies(1): >>41868925 #
8. Aeolun ◴[17 Oct 24 10:18 UTC] No.41868147{3}[source]▶
I think by the time you’ve worked your way through more dead children than the entirety of your civilian casualties, I think you’ve lost all pretence at the moral high ground.
9. guappa ◴[17 Oct 24 10:40 UTC] No.41868261{3}[source]▶
> If you have a military enemy that blatantly hides itself within civilian areas

And if you don't just claim that you do anyway and keep bombing hospitals.

10. ndheebebe ◴[17 Oct 24 12:16 UTC] No.41868925{5}[source]▶
This is a tenuous hypothetical.
11. kombine ◴[17 Oct 24 13:04 UTC] No.41869288{3}[source]▶
Do you know where the ministry of defense is located in Tel-Aviv? Right next to its biggest shopping mall, inside of which at any point you will find dozens of young soldiers wandering around in their military uniforms with automatic rifles hanging over the shoulders. I am saying this because I have been to this shopping mall many times. According to Israel's own doctrine that makes this shopping mall a legit military target, which, of course, is total bullshit. Just like the old and tired argument about "human shields" and "terrorists embedding themselves among civilians".
replies(1): >>41893867 #
12. pphysch ◴[17 Oct 24 16:14 UTC] No.41871027{3}[source]▶
Evidence-free allegations of "human shields" is not an excuse to repeatedly commit mass murder.

Israel has already executed a proportional response to Oct 7, at least 100 times over. The additional 99+ times represent indefensible war crimes.

13. pphysch ◴[17 Oct 24 16:16 UTC] No.41871043{3}[source]▶
Evidence-free allegations of "human shields" is not an excuse to repeatedly commit mass murder.

Israel has already executed a proportional response to Oct 7, at least 100 times over. The extra 99+ times represent unprovoked war crimes.

replies(2): >>41871808 #>>41874370 #
14. dralley ◴[17 Oct 24 17:40 UTC] No.41871808{4}[source]▶
That... is not how wars work. Proportional response is not a requirement.
15. pazimzadeh ◴[17 Oct 24 21:07 UTC] No.41873796{5}[source]▶
You can start by removing from power the government officials who funded Hamas. After that, yes time travel could help: https://xkcd.com/209/
replies(1): >>41875943 #
16. ArtixFox ◴[18 Oct 24 02:48 UTC] No.41875943{6}[source]▶
How will removing Benjamin change anything?
replies(1): >>41876314 #
17. pazimzadeh ◴[18 Oct 24 04:22 UTC] No.41876314{7}[source]▶
That depends on who replaces him. Do you have a better idea?
replies(1): >>41877385 #
18. ArtixFox ◴[18 Oct 24 08:25 UTC] No.41877385{8}[source]▶
yes, better airstrike policy as a first. Eliminating hamas is important, but instead of letting israel run wild, deploy a coalition so that you can chain israel while also eliminating hamas.
19. edanm ◴[20 Oct 24 08:25 UTC] No.41893867{4}[source]▶
The argument isn't that Hamas put their HQ next to civilians. It's that they store their munitions and shoot rockets out of schools. Israel's military HQ (not the ministry of defense), which is indeed located in Tel Aviv - Yafo, is not where tanks will be rolling out of.

Nor does Israel build underground bunkers or areas to shoot rockets out of underneath civilian buildings.