Bring back menus, QR codes are terrible

The reason they get tips is because they are waitstaff, it has zero to do with how hard they work, it's simply custom to tip waitstaff, even lazy waitstaff.

Most employees work just as hard without getting tips (like the people who are actually cooking the food).

> Most people work just as hard without getting tips (like the people who are actually cooking thr food)

Most people get paid a real wage which isn't backfilled with charity from their customers.

At many good restaurants tips are distributed to the kitchen staff too. Obviously I have no control over that, and the world isn't fair either. None of this changes my argument.

Those are things happen with good management, they have little to do with how hard an individual employee is working at a given time.

Besides the claim wasn't waitstaff gets "extra" tips for working hard, the claim was that waitstaff is tipped because they work hard. Don't move the goalposts.

>I honestly don't understand how you can say tips are not proportional to level of service and how level of service is entirely detached from working hard.

I tip the same if my service is shitty, I am not going to put an individual employee in a position of taking a pay cut when I can't know the exact reason something went wrong. I don't know enough about their operations to be punishing individual employees. Even if I could tell if it were an individual employee's fault, most places pool tips, so I'd be punishing the other employees working at the same time. So everyone gets the same tip from me.

I also simply just don't enjoy LARPing as a lord of my personal fiefdom.

Again, you get good service with good management, simple as that.

This is changing since now people are refusing to work those jobs. And yes, the entire industry is dumb and corrupt for having this practice in the first place, but it is what it is.

Perhaps you are unaware, but:

(1) US federal tipped minimum cash wage is $2.13, not $2.83, but also

(2) Most US states and territories have a tipped minimum wage above the federal tipped minimum (and also, though by a smaller margin, most have a tipped minimum above $2.83, which is PA’s tipped minimum.)

https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/state/minimum-wage/tipped

All tips are 'extra' that's the whole concept. It's money on top of what I am obliged to pay.

> you get good service with good management

Good management would pay a good wage and negate the need for tipping.

> I also simply just don't enjoy LARPing as a lord of my personal fiefdom.

Low blow. You are implying that I am less than you because I have some kind of financial control over waitstaff that I enjoy. A rather bad faith position to be in given how pious and understanding you are striving to come across as.

> most places pool tips

So now you agree kitchen staff get tipped too

> I tip the same if my service is shitty

Good for you. I don't think many people operate like this, so I'd say you are an edge case.

> it has zero to do with how hard they work, it's simply custom to tip waitstaff, even lazy waitstaff

Again, this is how you operate. Wikipedia lays out the common perception of tipping

"The customary amount of a tip can be a specific range of monetary amounts or a certain percentage of the bill based on the perceived quality of the service given."

I've experienced living in the UK without tipping, and in N.America with tipping. All I can say is it's night and day. Very few make a career out of working as waitstaff in the UK, plenty of people have a career in the service industry in N.America. Working hard for large tips can give you a living wage. In the UK because everyone is treated the same, waitstaff do the minimum for the minimum wage (there are exceptions, of course) and then find a better job. Since I left the UK this has begun to change, it's now reasonably common to tip in nicer restaurants, and guess what? The service is better and the waitstaff I assume are happier with more money in their pockets for their effort.

This does not change my point in the slightest, which is that wait staff need tips to survive because the tipped minimum wage is unlivable basically everywhere.

Its the same as the general minimum in several places, and at or above the federal general (not just tipped) minimum even more, so if its unlivable “basically everywhere” that's more than just a tipped minimum problem.

Yes, the general minimum wage is a problem too. But in 43 states the tipped minimum is a greater problem.

general minimum wage is peanuts, yes. but tipped waitstaff only make $2.83/hr is not true. If the employer did not make up the difference then they risk being fined/shutdown.

This is not true. I’ve been a service employee. Your employer withholds taxes on estimated tipped earnings, typically resulting in literal $0 paychecks. This is the norm in states with lower tipped minimums (might not hold true in states like CA). In fact, getting actual cash on your paycheck means the business was so slow that they needed to pay you to make up the difference (or close to it). In which case, barely over $7 is still abysmal to deal with the bs in that biz, and obviously far too little to actually live a decent life.

>In which case, barely over $7

Right, so tipped waitstaff only make $2.83/hr is not true.

True, tipped minimum is $2.13/hr.

> If the employer did not make up the difference then they risk being fined/shutdown.

Employers make up reported shortfalls in tipped jobs, but they also often treat shortfalls as a negative performance indicator, justifying termination. In jobs where there are cash tips (not everything through a payment system), this incentivizes enployees to assure that there are no shortfalls.

Tipped minimum is 2.13/hr is true but tipped waitstaff only make 2.13/hour is not true.