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“I'm basically giving myself a permanent vacation from being BDFL”

(mail.python.org)
2024 points randlet | 15 comments | 12 Jul 18 15:22 UTC | HN request time: 0.918s | source | bottom
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bla2 ◴[12 Jul 18 16:02 UTC] No.17515883[source]▶
> I don't ever want to have to fight so hard for a PEP and find that so many people despise my decisions.

Leading a large open source project must be terrible in this age of constant outrage :-(

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symmitchry ◴[12 Jul 18 16:11 UTC] No.17515972[source]▶
I'm a little confused though, by his feelings here. Why did he feel the need to "fight so hard for a PEP" if it was so controversial, and everyone was outraged?

I do understand people's points about "the age of outrage" and "internet 2018" but still: the PEP wasn't generally accepted as being a fantastic improvement, so why did he feel the need to fight so hard for it?

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sametmax ◴[12 Jul 18 16:32 UTC] No.17516223[source]▶
That's the very point of a bdfl : it assumes he knows better than others. Debating is for insight and cortesy, not mandatory.
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1. 21 ◴[12 Jul 18 16:40 UTC] No.17516307[source]▶
But the B is for Benevolent. When a huge part of the community is against, does that B still stands?
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2. bch ◴[12 Jul 18 16:52 UTC] No.17516435[source]▶
He gave them a fantastic language for free and shepherded it for years - how much more benevolent does he need to be?
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3. icebraining ◴[12 Jul 18 16:53 UTC] No.17516440[source]▶
If both kids want to eat candy as dinner, is the father blocking that not benevolent because he's outnumbered?
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4. kgwgk ◴[12 Jul 18 16:53 UTC] No.17516441[source]▶
This is what happens when the B and the D collide: you renounce to the FL.
replies(1): >>17516534 #
5. 21 ◴[12 Jul 18 16:59 UTC] No.17516503[source]▶
There is a reason kids aren't allowed to legally decide for themselves until 18.

In Python land, there is this saying "we are all adults here".

Being an adult also means avoiding creating needless drama.

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6. sametmax ◴[12 Jul 18 17:03 UTC] No.17516534[source]▶
If you are a good person.

I agree with the idea you should give power only to people that don't want it.

I think guido was the right person in power.

7. sametmax ◴[12 Jul 18 17:09 UTC] No.17516596{3}[source]▶
Have you ever tried to debate on python-idea ?
8. cuckcuckspruce ◴[12 Jul 18 17:09 UTC] No.17516601[source]▶
Benevolent: "well meaning and kindly"

You can do something that people disagree with, even something that you think is the best for them, and still be benevolent.

9. ◴[12 Jul 18 17:10 UTC] No.17516616[source]▶
10. ben509 ◴[12 Jul 18 17:14 UTC] No.17516650{3}[source]▶
They are, but they're adults who work in completely different environments and thus have wildly divergent needs.

One contrast:

You have some people who in business and want to do keep an old code base working forever.

You have some people who have no business experience and have no idea what a bottom line is, but might need a feature for a critical open source project that many others will use.

11. ryanisnan ◴[12 Jul 18 17:14 UTC] No.17516653[source]▶
In nearly all cases where parenting is present, children are inferior to their parents in both intelligence and judgement.

This analogy does not work in software.

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12. dragontamer ◴[12 Jul 18 17:21 UTC] No.17516714[source]▶
The D is for dictator. When a huge part of the community is against, the Dictator overrules.
13. iajrz ◴[12 Jul 18 17:51 UTC] No.17516986[source]▶
B stands for benevolent even in that case. The target of that benevolence is the project. His call should be in the best interest of the project (benevolent), final (dictator), and (tongue in cheek) eternal (for life)
14. icebraining ◴[12 Jul 18 18:32 UTC] No.17517332{3}[source]▶
Repeating sametmax above: "That's the very point of a bdfl : it assumes he knows better than others."
15. kolpa ◴[12 Jul 18 19:35 UTC] No.17517890[source]▶
For every minute that he holds the BDLF title.