Most active commenters
  • (3)
  • askafriend(3)

←back to thread

370 points sillypuddy | 29 comments | | HN request time: 1.702s | source | bottom
Show context
makewavesnotwar ◴[] No.16407409[source]
Likening people to Thiel is ridiculous. He is personally facing the backlash from openly supporting Trump and being a speaker at his rallies. Nobody else in the valley did anything as absurd or unnecessary. And if he thinks he'll fair better in LA, I think he's sorely mistaken once people start recognizing him en masse. But to my point, this article seems to be generalizing an outlier to make its point. Everyone is being alienated everywhere because the country has a leader who is actively polarizing the populous by demonizing every side that he's not on as an enemy to his agenda, even going so far now as to suggest people who disagree should be labeled as traitors - which coming from the President, is technically a death threat as that is the punishment for treason. Peter Thiel seems to be actively trying to paint a more dystopian portrait of the situation to make himself out to be a victim when in reality people on both sides have been alienated by the dissolution of the "moderate" common ground where we all worked together in favor of a Monday Night Football-esque team based society (or crime drama - good v. bad). More generalizations like this that skew reality aren't going to help anything.
replies(6): >>16407487 #>>16407649 #>>16407696 #>>16408792 #>>16408795 #>>16409087 #
1. superquest ◴[] No.16407487[source]
"openly supporting" the winning presidential candidate isn't "absurd".
replies(11): >>16407503 #>>16407542 #>>16407625 #>>16407645 #>>16407716 #>>16407763 #>>16407794 #>>16407796 #>>16407828 #>>16407892 #>>16418174 #
2. dabbledash ◴[] No.16407503[source]
Well, normally it isn’t.
3. breakyerself ◴[] No.16407542[source]
Normally I'd agree with you, but Trump is a special case.
replies(1): >>16407896 #
4. tensor ◴[] No.16407645[source]
It is when it implies openly supporting racism and sexism, which is why the reaction is rightly extreme.
replies(2): >>16407701 #>>16407871 #
5. sigmar ◴[] No.16407763[source]
While I'm not sure I'd use the word "absurd," arguing that "he won, so it couldn't be absurd to support him" doesn't make sense. Lots of demagogues win elections. Winning an election doesn't automatically make you ethical or competent.
replies(1): >>16407841 #
6. gameswithgo ◴[] No.16407794[source]
I think it is.
7. ◴[] No.16407796[source]
8. wz1000 ◴[] No.16407828[source]
Supporting any US President of the last century or so is morally dubious(if you consider mass murder and toppling democratic regimes morally dubious). Like Chomsky likes to say, if US Presidents were held to the standards of the Nuremberg principles, they would all be executed. In that regard, Trump has so far done less harm than most recent Presidents.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BXtgq0Nhsc

9. shaftoe ◴[] No.16407841[source]
No, but it certainly makes you mainstream.
replies(2): >>16408069 #>>16408260 #
10. ◴[] No.16407865{3}[source]
11. sho ◴[] No.16407871[source]
You need to zoom way the hell out, or you will miss the forest for the trees. Whether or not Trump is personally racist or sexist or whatever is basically immaterial. The very fact of his election, and his continuing popularity despite events, is direct manifestation of deep-seated cultural problems in the USA.

Simply dismissing the concerns of tens of millions of americans as "racist and sexist" is not helpful and in fact perpetuates the problem. I am not a Trump supporter, or a Thiel supporter, but it's not self-evidently bad that a person with some means chose to work with the guy in charge to try to make a difference. This kind of lazy dismissal is part of the problem.

12. askafriend ◴[] No.16407892[source]
Yes it is. When you support Trump, you support his vile brand of leadership. The majority in this the country do not support this man or his ideas. They simply don't. The base that supported him and made this presidency possible is collapsing by all reported metrics (as in they are literally dying off, and younger people neither support Trump's ideas nor are they as religious). So while Trump's base may have squeezed out a win last time, their chances of a repeat decrease significantly as time goes on.

Time is not on their side, and I suspect History is not on their side either.

replies(4): >>16408794 #>>16408957 #>>16409180 #>>16410125 #
13. catdograbbit ◴[] No.16407896[source]
No, he isn't. Democrats said the same thing about Bush, and they're saying the same thing about Pence. Anybody with an R next to their name would get the same backlash if they were president.
replies(2): >>16408148 #>>16415993 #
14. chillwaves ◴[] No.16407916{3}[source]
Not to mention money laundering. Look, the charges against Trump can be argued, what cannot be argued is the attack by Russia against our country and Trump has refused to say one single bad word about Russia, while simultaneously having a public record of praising Putin and getting financed by Russian oligarchs. This is a matter of public record and fact that is beyond dispute.

Lastly, both houses of congress passed additional sanctions against Russian with super majorities, beyond veto proof and Trump refuses to enact them. We are living in a constitutional crisis and for some reason every move Trump makes seems to benefit Russia.

This is not normal. This is not OK.

replies(1): >>16407973 #
15. ◴[] No.16407973{4}[source]
16. evgen ◴[] No.16408069{3}[source]
Agreeing with 46% of the population is mainstream? Okay...
replies(1): >>16408536 #
17. ryanwaggoner ◴[] No.16408148{3}[source]
I can’t speak for everyone, but this isn’t true at all for me. I have disagreed with large chunks of the policies of every president in my lifetime, and voted for presidents of both parties. I’ve never doubted that any of them loved this country and took their oath of office seriously.

I have zero faith that our current president cares about anything beyond himself and his image. Zero.

And I’m not alone. A shocking number of conservative writers and thinkers believe Trump represents a fundamental threat to democracy. Behind closed doors, even many of his ardent public supporters have no respect or faith in him.

18. alexqgb ◴[] No.16408260{3}[source]
Not if the election wasn't won with a majority.
replies(1): >>16409772 #
19. nl ◴[] No.16408536{4}[source]
Sure it is. No one claims driving a Honda Accord isn’t a mainstream choice just because they aren’t the number one selling car.
20. refurb ◴[] No.16408794[source]
Let me guess, you don't know any Trump supporters?
replies(2): >>16409257 #>>16410646 #
21. Fins ◴[] No.16409180[source]
As disgusting and obnoxious as Trump is, there were enough perfectly good reasons to vote for him as a vote against the other major candidate.

Until people start actually voting for (a) third party, I am afraid that rather than being a last squeeze, we will be getting candidates like this more often, not less.

22. dang ◴[] No.16409257{3}[source]
Please don't post unsubstantive swipes in discussions here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

23. PeterisP ◴[] No.16409772{4}[source]
Sure it is, if there's a 30%/70% split of viewpoints then the 30% viewpoint is a mainstream viewpoint as well, not some weird niche - it's also considered normal and conventional (though less popular than the 70% one), shared by a significant part of the people, known / acknowledged by almost everyone including the opponents.
24. lr4444lr ◴[] No.16410125[source]
When people supported Malcolm X, did they support his anti-semitism as well?

Older people almost always have disproportionately higher turnout in elections.

replies(1): >>16410657 #
25. askafriend ◴[] No.16410646{3}[source]
I've lived in the east coast, the west coast, the midwest, and the south all for extended periods in my life. I've lived in so many states in this country that I know intimately the diverse viewpoints and diverse culture that exists across America.
26. askafriend ◴[] No.16410657{3}[source]
There is leadership and then there are ideas.

It is entirely possible to support someone's form of leadership without entirely supporting all of the person's ideas.

That's why I specifically said Trump's vile brand of leadership. It's OK to agree or disagree with his ideas, but leadership is far more than having good or bad ideas. Leadership is ultimately about people and having a selfless, coherent vision for the people you represent.

replies(1): >>16413295 #
27. hackerman12345 ◴[] No.16413295{4}[source]
The other contender says nice words while killing people and starting wars in the background, is that really the superior moral choice?
28. breakyerself ◴[] No.16415993{3}[source]
I didn't agree with Bush's economic policy, but I didn't think he was a particularly dangerous politician and I generally supported him in the years after 9/11. Then we invaded Iraq based on false pretenses and with no plan for what to do in the days following the fall of the government. It was deceitful, disgusting and incompetent and a waste of lives and resources. So I decided Bush is a POS. It wasn't a predetermined partisan opinion. It was based on how things actually unfolded.

I still think that in terms of damage done Nixon was the worst we've had and Bush comes in second. Trump is dangerous in my opinion, but nothing so far comes close to what Bush did. It's strange that you make dislike of Bush sound unreasonable. It's perfectly reasonable.

29. makewavesnotwar ◴[] No.16418174[source]
Sure it is in the way Thiel did it. It was absurd for him to go on national television to make statements with 0 impact. Trump didn't win most places in the country Thiel might want to live. Trump lost on the entire west coast, Colorado and NY. He alienated himself and for what? He couldn't even help Trump win CA.