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Like Peter Thiel, Tech Workers Feel Alienated by Silicon Valley ‘Echo Chamber’

(www.wsj.com)
370 points sillypuddy | 51 comments | 18 Feb 18 16:50 UTC | HN request time: 2.096s | source | bottom
1. makewavesnotwar ◴[18 Feb 18 18:37 UTC] No.16407409[source]▶
Likening people to Thiel is ridiculous. He is personally facing the backlash from openly supporting Trump and being a speaker at his rallies. Nobody else in the valley did anything as absurd or unnecessary. And if he thinks he'll fair better in LA, I think he's sorely mistaken once people start recognizing him en masse. But to my point, this article seems to be generalizing an outlier to make its point. Everyone is being alienated everywhere because the country has a leader who is actively polarizing the populous by demonizing every side that he's not on as an enemy to his agenda, even going so far now as to suggest people who disagree should be labeled as traitors - which coming from the President, is technically a death threat as that is the punishment for treason. Peter Thiel seems to be actively trying to paint a more dystopian portrait of the situation to make himself out to be a victim when in reality people on both sides have been alienated by the dissolution of the "moderate" common ground where we all worked together in favor of a Monday Night Football-esque team based society (or crime drama - good v. bad). More generalizations like this that skew reality aren't going to help anything.
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2. superquest ◴[18 Feb 18 18:51 UTC] No.16407487[source]▶
"openly supporting" the winning presidential candidate isn't "absurd".
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3. dabbledash ◴[18 Feb 18 18:54 UTC] No.16407503[source]▶
Well, normally it isn’t.
4. breakyerself ◴[18 Feb 18 19:00 UTC] No.16407542[source]▶
Normally I'd agree with you, but Trump is a special case.
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5. tensor ◴[18 Feb 18 19:14 UTC] No.16407645[source]▶
It is when it implies openly supporting racism and sexism, which is why the reaction is rightly extreme.
replies(2): >>16407701 #>>16407871 #
6. JumpCrisscross ◴[18 Feb 18 19:14 UTC] No.16407649[source]▶
> He is personally facing the backlash from openly supporting Trump and being a speaker at his rallies

Thiel is moving to Los Angeles, not Louisiana. The amount of PR he’s gotten over his branding decision surrounding this move is mind blowing.

replies(2): >>16407904 #>>16418806 #
7. tomcam ◴[18 Feb 18 19:21 UTC] No.16407696[source]▶
Why was supporting Trump absurd?
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8. sigmar ◴[18 Feb 18 19:31 UTC] No.16407763[source]▶
While I'm not sure I'd use the word "absurd," arguing that "he won, so it couldn't be absurd to support him" doesn't make sense. Lots of demagogues win elections. Winning an election doesn't automatically make you ethical or competent.
replies(1): >>16407841 #
9. gameswithgo ◴[18 Feb 18 19:34 UTC] No.16407794[source]▶
I think it is.
10. ◴[18 Feb 18 19:34 UTC] No.16407796[source]▶
11. wz1000 ◴[18 Feb 18 19:39 UTC] No.16407828[source]▶
Supporting any US President of the last century or so is morally dubious(if you consider mass murder and toppling democratic regimes morally dubious). Like Chomsky likes to say, if US Presidents were held to the standards of the Nuremberg principles, they would all be executed. In that regard, Trump has so far done less harm than most recent Presidents.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BXtgq0Nhsc

12. shaftoe ◴[18 Feb 18 19:41 UTC] No.16407841{3}[source]▶
No, but it certainly makes you mainstream.
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13. ◴[18 Feb 18 19:44 UTC] No.16407865{4}[source]▶
14. sho ◴[18 Feb 18 19:44 UTC] No.16407871{3}[source]▶
You need to zoom way the hell out, or you will miss the forest for the trees. Whether or not Trump is personally racist or sexist or whatever is basically immaterial. The very fact of his election, and his continuing popularity despite events, is direct manifestation of deep-seated cultural problems in the USA.

Simply dismissing the concerns of tens of millions of americans as "racist and sexist" is not helpful and in fact perpetuates the problem. I am not a Trump supporter, or a Thiel supporter, but it's not self-evidently bad that a person with some means chose to work with the guy in charge to try to make a difference. This kind of lazy dismissal is part of the problem.

15. askafriend ◴[18 Feb 18 19:45 UTC] No.16407892[source]▶
Yes it is. When you support Trump, you support his vile brand of leadership. The majority in this the country do not support this man or his ideas. They simply don't. The base that supported him and made this presidency possible is collapsing by all reported metrics (as in they are literally dying off, and younger people neither support Trump's ideas nor are they as religious). So while Trump's base may have squeezed out a win last time, their chances of a repeat decrease significantly as time goes on.

Time is not on their side, and I suspect History is not on their side either.

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16. catdograbbit ◴[18 Feb 18 19:46 UTC] No.16407896{3}[source]▶
No, he isn't. Democrats said the same thing about Bush, and they're saying the same thing about Pence. Anybody with an R next to their name would get the same backlash if they were president.
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17. IntronExon ◴[18 Feb 18 19:47 UTC] No.16407904[source]▶
Unless he’s paying a PR firm to make it so, which wouldn’t shock many here I suspect. Clearly he’s not concerned about negative press, and this kind of negative press will attract a certain kind of ideologue. It’s all a win for him, as we lose by bickering over the parting words of someone who seems to utterly lack a conscience.
18. chillwaves ◴[18 Feb 18 19:48 UTC] No.16407916{4}[source]▶
Not to mention money laundering. Look, the charges against Trump can be argued, what cannot be argued is the attack by Russia against our country and Trump has refused to say one single bad word about Russia, while simultaneously having a public record of praising Putin and getting financed by Russian oligarchs. This is a matter of public record and fact that is beyond dispute.

Lastly, both houses of congress passed additional sanctions against Russian with super majorities, beyond veto proof and Trump refuses to enact them. We are living in a constitutional crisis and for some reason every move Trump makes seems to benefit Russia.

This is not normal. This is not OK.

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19. chillwaves ◴[18 Feb 18 19:50 UTC] No.16407926[source]▶
When 60% of the country actively hate the guy, it doesn't make for good business. On a moral level, Trump is literally one of the worst human beings on the planet. Every awful trait you can associate with a person, Trump has it.

The dude is a walking billboard for the 7 deadly sins.

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20. ◴[18 Feb 18 19:54 UTC] No.16407973{5}[source]▶
21. Covzire ◴[18 Feb 18 20:03 UTC] No.16408070[source]▶
Have you ever noticed that that phrase "I may not agree with you, but I'll defend your right to say it to the death!" (heard it a lot after the 2003 Iraq Invasion) is almost universally applied from Right to Left and almost never the other way around? That to me is a great indicator for which side is much more authoritarian.
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22. evgen ◴[18 Feb 18 20:03 UTC] No.16408069{4}[source]▶
Agreeing with 46% of the population is mainstream? Okay...
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23. sho ◴[18 Feb 18 20:04 UTC] No.16408073{3}[source]▶
> On a moral level, Trump is literally one of the worst human beings on the planet

Oh come on. I am far from a Trump supporter but this is ludicrous. How many people has he killed?

Trump is a horny old silver-spoon doofus with a knack for telling people what they want to hear. I can't stand him but Stalin he ain't.

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24. EasyTiger_ ◴[18 Feb 18 20:09 UTC] No.16408139{3}[source]▶
> On a moral level, Trump is literally one of the worst human beings on the planet.

You just lose people with this hysterical hyperbole

25. ryanwaggoner ◴[18 Feb 18 20:10 UTC] No.16408148{4}[source]▶
I can’t speak for everyone, but this isn’t true at all for me. I have disagreed with large chunks of the policies of every president in my lifetime, and voted for presidents of both parties. I’ve never doubted that any of them loved this country and took their oath of office seriously.

I have zero faith that our current president cares about anything beyond himself and his image. Zero.

And I’m not alone. A shocking number of conservative writers and thinkers believe Trump represents a fundamental threat to democracy. Behind closed doors, even many of his ardent public supporters have no respect or faith in him.

26. alexqgb ◴[18 Feb 18 20:23 UTC] No.16408260{4}[source]▶
Not if the election wasn't won with a majority.
replies(1): >>16409772 #
27. wellboy ◴[18 Feb 18 20:29 UTC] No.16408313{4}[source]▶
He mean public figure in the western world.
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28. ◴[18 Feb 18 20:37 UTC] No.16408378{3}[source]▶
29. sho ◴[18 Feb 18 20:38 UTC] No.16408387{5}[source]▶
He literally said "literally one of the worst human beings on the planet".

I am pretty unsympathetic to any argument that starts with "he meant to say...". I can see what he said, in black and white. I'm going to address that. He can post what "he meant to say" separately.

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30. nl ◴[18 Feb 18 20:54 UTC] No.16408536{5}[source]▶
Sure it is. No one claims driving a Honda Accord isn’t a mainstream choice just because they aren’t the number one selling car.
31. mlazos ◴[18 Feb 18 21:22 UTC] No.16408767{6}[source]▶
Clearly he isn’t talking about murder, he is talking about the seven Christian virtues, and yes Trump pretty much embodies the opposite of all them. I feel like you’re conflating “taking something at face value” with ignoring context.
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32. unapprovedviews ◴[18 Feb 18 21:25 UTC] No.16408792[source]▶
> facing the backlash from openly supporting Trump

thus further proving the headline

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33. refurb ◴[18 Feb 18 21:25 UTC] No.16408794{3}[source]▶
Let me guess, you don't know any Trump supporters?
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34. ignoramceisblis ◴[18 Feb 18 21:25 UTC] No.16408795[source]▶
> Everyone is being alienated everywhere because the country has a leader who is actively polarizing the populous

No. That is the fault of mass media corporations (and now, also thinly-veiled "grassroots" organizations). It's quite simple to pick and choose quotes from individuals that can be construed as offensive ("superpredators", anyone? The list goes on), craft a narrative, and put them on the national stage. This is what these organizations do, at the expense of other issues. You will not find a more powerful, more influential reason for the division this country is experiencing. It is these organizations and those who profit from them the most that are most responsible.

replies(1): >>16418173 #
35. anigbrowl ◴[18 Feb 18 21:27 UTC] No.16408804{3}[source]▶
heard it a lot after the 2003 Iraq Invasion

People on the left strenuously objected to the invasion of Iraq as a criminal waste of human life, and for commentators on the right to say they were defending freedom (including the freedom to criticise their ongoing war) was a specious argument, to put it mildly.

36. sho ◴[18 Feb 18 21:28 UTC] No.16408816{7}[source]▶
> he is talking about the seven Christian virtues

I had no idea he was talking about this. How could anyone guess that. If true then he has failed to communicate so completely that I am inclined to ignore everything else.

If you have a coherent argument which embodies what "he meant to say" then let's hear it. Shifting the goalposts on past arguments, however, is not allowed.

replies(1): >>16410148 #
37. Fins ◴[18 Feb 18 22:25 UTC] No.16409180{3}[source]▶
As disgusting and obnoxious as Trump is, there were enough perfectly good reasons to vote for him as a vote against the other major candidate.

Until people start actually voting for (a) third party, I am afraid that rather than being a last squeeze, we will be getting candidates like this more often, not less.

38. dang ◴[18 Feb 18 22:40 UTC] No.16409257{4}[source]▶
Please don't post unsubstantive swipes in discussions here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

39. PeterisP ◴[19 Feb 18 00:16 UTC] No.16409772{5}[source]▶
Sure it is, if there's a 30%/70% split of viewpoints then the 30% viewpoint is a mainstream viewpoint as well, not some weird niche - it's also considered normal and conventional (though less popular than the 70% one), shared by a significant part of the people, known / acknowledged by almost everyone including the opponents.
40. lr4444lr ◴[19 Feb 18 01:31 UTC] No.16410125{3}[source]▶
When people supported Malcolm X, did they support his anti-semitism as well?

Older people almost always have disproportionately higher turnout in elections.

replies(1): >>16410657 #
41. mlazos ◴[19 Feb 18 01:41 UTC] No.16410148{8}[source]▶
> The dude is a walking billboard for the 7 deadly sins.

Not sure how much clearer it can be. Sorry I substituted the word virtues for sins. I gave a cursory glance to a google search for 7 deadly sins and found [1] which led me to [2]

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_deadly_sins

[2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_virtues

42. askafriend ◴[19 Feb 18 03:54 UTC] No.16410646{4}[source]▶
I've lived in the east coast, the west coast, the midwest, and the south all for extended periods in my life. I've lived in so many states in this country that I know intimately the diverse viewpoints and diverse culture that exists across America.
43. askafriend ◴[19 Feb 18 03:57 UTC] No.16410657{4}[source]▶
There is leadership and then there are ideas.

It is entirely possible to support someone's form of leadership without entirely supporting all of the person's ideas.

That's why I specifically said Trump's vile brand of leadership. It's OK to agree or disagree with his ideas, but leadership is far more than having good or bad ideas. Leadership is ultimately about people and having a selfless, coherent vision for the people you represent.

replies(1): >>16413295 #
44. chillwaves ◴[19 Feb 18 04:39 UTC] No.16410780{3}[source]▶
No, I haven't.
45. hackerman12345 ◴[19 Feb 18 15:10 UTC] No.16413295{5}[source]▶
The other contender says nice words while killing people and starting wars in the background, is that really the superior moral choice?
46. breakyerself ◴[19 Feb 18 21:45 UTC] No.16415993{4}[source]▶
I didn't agree with Bush's economic policy, but I didn't think he was a particularly dangerous politician and I generally supported him in the years after 9/11. Then we invaded Iraq based on false pretenses and with no plan for what to do in the days following the fall of the government. It was deceitful, disgusting and incompetent and a waste of lives and resources. So I decided Bush is a POS. It wasn't a predetermined partisan opinion. It was based on how things actually unfolded.

I still think that in terms of damage done Nixon was the worst we've had and Bush comes in second. Trump is dangerous in my opinion, but nothing so far comes close to what Bush did. It's strange that you make dislike of Bush sound unreasonable. It's perfectly reasonable.

47. makewavesnotwar ◴[20 Feb 18 06:02 UTC] No.16418173[source]▶
No. Trump is creating and repeating his own rhetoric. The mass media corporations aren't making him tweet constantly about the "Dems". Your statements about the media aren't wrong but that doesn't mean that Trump isn't also to blame. He's literally picking fights at every opportunity he gets.
48. makewavesnotwar ◴[20 Feb 18 06:03 UTC] No.16418174[source]▶
Sure it is in the way Thiel did it. It was absurd for him to go on national television to make statements with 0 impact. Trump didn't win most places in the country Thiel might want to live. Trump lost on the entire west coast, Colorado and NY. He alienated himself and for what? He couldn't even help Trump win CA.
49. makewavesnotwar ◴[20 Feb 18 06:54 UTC] No.16418325[source]▶
I'm not sure if you mean in general or with regard to my original comment, but in general I think supporting a guy who personally claimed to have molested women and who was in the middle of several fraud lawsuits to run the country is absurd in my book. Maybe you have a different definition of absurdity. Trump was also making absurd comments about our 2 biggest trade allies Mexico and China saying that he was going to build a wall and have Mexico pay for it (aside from being an idiotic idea for a number of reasons - there was no way he was/is ever going to get Mexico to pay for the wall) and stating as a matter of fact that China was manipulating our currency and created the "hoax" of global warming. All absurd and senseless in my book.

Secondly for Thiel, there's the whole question of why on earth he would go on national TV to support Trump when he is completely outside the general demographic that Trump caters to. Trump's biggest supporters were some combination of baby-boomers (and to some extent their children), gun owners and Christians. Some of the ultra-rich may have been his biggest financial supporters and the ones that stand to gain the most from his presidency - but they are only a sliver of his actual voter base and an even smaller percentage of the American populous. By speaking out the way he did - he essentially put a spotlight on himself as someone willing to sacrifice the welfare of the people if it helps his own bottom line. He could have supported Trump indirectly and it wouldn't have changed the outcome of the election. I would say the way Thiel supported Trump was especially absurd.

50. makewavesnotwar ◴[20 Feb 18 06:55 UTC] No.16418332[source]▶
That's a stretch.
51. makewavesnotwar ◴[20 Feb 18 08:51 UTC] No.16418806[source]▶
Pretty sure the PR is a play to politicize his move and paint SV as a brick wall of intolerant liberalism and give the "conservatives" more fuel for their fire just like his speech at the RNC. Still have no idea why he's trying so hard to burn the community that generated his wealth though. Makes one wonder who he's really in bed with now.