Codebreaker found in bag attended US security conference before death (2012)

Killing someone and locking them up in a duffel bag in a hotel bathroom doesn't seem British governments style. Before claiming the victim was another Snowden/whistleblower, you might want to read this excerpt from the article:

"The source indicated that Williams' work to disrupt the Russian mafia could have put him at risk".

"Some of these powerful criminal networks have links with, and employ, former KGB agents who can track down people like Williams," the source said.

He also flew to the NSA headquarters a couple times a year.

KGB vs NSA, which one is actually active and fully funded right now?

Wait, so what exactly is the British government style of killing people?

If you assume the British government chooses to murder people, it also perfectly reasonable to assume that it does it using someone else style to cover its crime e.g. russian mafia style.

What is British style ? Hiding body in teabag ? I think he wanted to leak and as MI6 don't let leaks he had to be eliminated.

But then again if there is enemy A and enemy B, and you are enemy A with half a brain, you probably do your very best to let all the signs point at enemy B.

The style of a security agency generally would be to make it look like either an accidental death (car crash) or a natural death (exotic virus), so as not to attract the attention of the police or the press. The mafia style, on the other hand, would be to make it clear that he had been executed, so as to send a threatening message to the appropriate circles.

he could be potential leak, they could do it this way so rest knows how leak will end for them.

Easy and effective.

Hrrrumph.

The British Way is subtle. They could have simply leaked info about the guy to the Russian Maffia and let them do their thing.

It seems to have worked quite well.

The fatal flaw in this theory is:

"MI6 did not report him missing, however, until 23 August, at which point his body had decomposed, thwarting attempts to determine the precise cause of death."

His own spy agency failed to report him missing which is pretty suspicious all by itself. To me, this would indicate they're most likely involved. They also left out the fact the heat in the flat was turned up to speed decomposition and the reason the bag was in the bathtub was to make it easy for body fluids to drain.

Lots more details which indicate a professional hit:

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/blog/2013/01/04/gareth-wi...

I disagree. Making the victim look like some kind of pervert or loner would appear to be common occurrence for British citizens.

Of course, all Brits might all be perverted loners!

  Nicholas Anderson, former MI6 officer turned author, told
  The Independent on Sunday: "I am on verbal record to my 
  own family, close friends and select lawyers that if 
  anything ever happened to me – a straight man and a 
  positive thinker – it would likely be made to look either 
  like a suicide or that I died dressed like a woman.

  "Over the years, it seems to me a favourite way of 
  presentation. I, of course, am not suicidal in any remote 
  way nor do I like to dress so. When I read in the press 
  about Gareth Williams, women's clothes, and a wig, it all 
  fits the usual scenario."

N.B. The source of the above quote is not currently available: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/curious-case-of-a...

Other suspicious UK deaths:

- http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mi6-dirty-secrets-why-d...:

- In 1983, 25-year-old Stephen Drinkwater, who worked as a clerk at GCHQ, was found dead at his home with a plastic bag over his head.

- In 1997 another worker, Nicholas Husband, 46, was found dead at home dressed in a bra and panties – with a plastic bag over his head.

- Two years later, Kevin Allen, 31, a language expert at GCHQ, was found dead in his bed at home with a plastic bag over his head and a dust mask over his mouth.

And a few more British perverts and loners:

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Milligan

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Gareth_Williams

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Mossman

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Moyle

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Rusbridger

Plus a couple of other deaths that were linked to the state:

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilda_Murrell

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Kelly

- Dr. Richard Holmes (Dr. David Kelly's co-worker) - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2133201/Dr-Richard-H...

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_MacRae

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_Mannakee

- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lindi_St_Clair

Apologies about the "source" but: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2139799/Sex-spies-se...

In summary, many of these deaths were suspicious. None of them have been proved to be attributed to the British security services, but is interesting that the link (however tenuous) is there.

Look at it another way. If you are the security services and you need to get rid of someone, making a murder look like a suicide is a good move. However, a suicide normally requires depression or some linked emotional trauma. Without that, the suicide is suspicious. If the suicide is linked to an accidental sexual game then the victim looks like a pervert, is shamed publicly and the "suicide" is much difficult to question. QED, murders through sexual misadventures are much easier to pass off than depressive suicides or straight up murders.

Car crash in a tunnel in Paris? ;)

The general practice is to leave known spies operating and use them for counterintelligence. No other explanation is consistent with the small number of prosecutions and premature deaths.

Here are https non-mobile links

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Milligan

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Kelly

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Gareth_Williams

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Moyle

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Rusbridger

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilda_Murrell

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_MacRae

Because Williams, having just uncovered key evidence against the evil Russian mafia at Black Hat and/or Harrods was, the only person in MI6 who could possibly stand a chance against the evil Russian mafia.

At the very least acknowledge the possibility, instead of parroting whatever some anonymous source - who decided to surface two years after the fact, at a very strategic time at that - is saying.

> To me, this would indicate they're most likely involved.

Oh really? Of course, you're a career criminal investigator with a history of solving crimes committed and covered up by nefarious government entities?

Christ, the completely unsubstantiated hyperbolic rush to conclusions in this thread is absolutely mind-numbing.

Of course, that what a paid astroturfer for the government WOULD say, so I am probably one and can easily be ignored. Carry on.

Michael Hutchence died like this as well. Perhaps we should investigate his links to MI6.

Counterintelligence is worthless if the plan is to leak to the public, rather than to the intelligence apparatus of another nation.

One of the hallmarks of a conspiracy theory is that pretty much anything, including evidence against it, is actually evidence for it - because it's all part of the cover up.

Of course I agree that there is the possibility that autoerotic-asphyxiation is an art that is enjoyed by many more than most of us appreciate! Sometimes it goes wrong.

However, there just seems to be worrying number of people who are linked to the British security services.

Other notable names (non-security services related) include:

- David Carradine: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Carradine

- Kristian Digby: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristian_Digby

- Kevin Glibert: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Gilbert

That's what they WANT you to believe.

Yes, the Daily Mail loves a bit of faux outrage and tabloid gossip, but they actually do employ journalists (sometimes). Here they cover expert evidence given to the coroner. Check out the pictures and videos.

>An escapology expert tried and failed 300 times to lock himself into an identical bag after being hired to try to crack the mystery of Gareth Williams' death.

...

He said: 'I just cannot do it. This case, I just cannot get it off my mind. It is very difficult. I am an escapologist, I am thinking outside the box here and trying everything I can to find a way.'

Dr Wilcox added: 'With all your trials and failures do you think it would be impossible to padlock this bag from the inside?'

Mr Faulding replied: 'I cannot say it was impossible, but even Houdini would struggle.'

He said Mr Williams could not have survived for more than 30 minutes as the temperature quickly rose and oxygen levels dropped. Mr Faulding said he only lasted five minutes before becoming 'delirious' after zipping himself inside with emergency oxygen and a paramedic outside.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2136118/Gareth-Willi...

Or IS IT?

Wayback Machine is your friend, regarding the quote/article above:

http://web.archive.org/web/20121022174605/http://www.indepen...

A murder can be used eliminate someone, but also to send a message.

For it to be a message to others it has to be visible and it has to be obvious who did it without it actually holding up in court.

The Litvinenko case comes to mind. He didn't "trip" down the stairs, the way he was killed made it clear who killed him and sent a message out.

Both... are you actually serious?

The garden of forking paths comes to mind.

I had to laugh for about a solid minute at,

>I am an escapologist, I am thinking outside the box here.

I wonder if state apologists on Russian web forums say the same thing whenever Alexander Litvinenko is brought up.

EDIT: To expand on this now that I'm not mobile: This notion of the "style" of security agencies might be what you get from Hollywood and spy novels, but you could only arrive upon this conclusion if you are selectively excluding examples from reality. Yeah, we know of the US's "heart attack gun", but we also know they are rather fond of "assassination via drone" and don't give a shit who knows it. The Russians tried to sneak the Georgi Markov assassination under the radar, but killed Alexander Litvinenko in one of the more flamboyant ways imaginable. Mossad tried to be sly with Mahmoud Al-Mabhouh, but they've blown other peoples' heads off with telephone bombs on more than one occasion.

The conclusion that should be drawn from real-world examples of state assassinations should not be one that you find surprising: they do whatever they think will work best in any particular situation. That is their style.

>His own spy agency failed to report him missing which is pretty suspicious all by itself.

It's the British government, one of the most bureaucratic agencies in the world. The fact that the form to notify the police wasn't lost while bouncing around is the only surprising thing to me in that sentence.

> Look at it another way. If you are the security services and you need to get rid of someone, making a murder look like a suicide is a good move. However, a suicide normally requires depression or some linked emotional trauma. Without that, the suicide is suspicious. If the suicide is linked to an accidental sexual game then the victim looks like a pervert, is shamed publicly and the "suicide" is much difficult to question. QED, murders through sexual misadventures are much easier to pass off than depressive suicides or straight up murders

Or, you know, people do just kill themselves in large numbers in the UK. Men aged between 15 and 44 have the highest rates of completed suicide. While GCHQ is an Equal Opportunities employer it's likely that they employ many men because of the electronic and computing work.

(http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/subnational-health4/suicides-i...)

Mental health services in Gloucestershire are provided by 2gether NHS Foundation Trust. But there have been changes over this time - the 3 primary care trusts merged into a single trust; money from the budget of 2gether was taken to bail out one of the financially failing trusts; IAPT and PCAT have started; 2gether have done a lot of work to improve times for specialist community based psychotherapy (the wait used to be well over two years, it's much quicker now but they're still working on it). Suicide prevention hasn't been a national priority for very long.

> In summary, many of these deaths were suspicious

Really? Why? People die depressingly often by suicide. There is a known mechanism of "contagion" with DSH and suicide, and so we expect to find clusters of suicides.

I'd suggest the Marconi suicides (which used a number of bizarre methods) are much more suspicious than a death including suffocation. (Bags are sometimes used to preserve "dignity"; or to prevent need for cleanup of vomit.)

The KGB is no more, now there is the FSB. Whether or not that means anything in practice, I cannot say.

Actually, from the Mossad example, many of the more "known" Mossad deaths have been from bombs. So you can say that at least some spy agencies have a pattern.