←back to thread

The architecture of “not bad”: Decoding the Chinese source code of the void

(suggger.substack.com)
112 points Suggger | 6 comments | 11 Dec 25 14:21 UTC | HN request time: 0.444s | source | bottom
Show context
BurritoAlPastor ◴[11 Dec 25 21:05 UTC] No.46237143[source]▶
The language pattern the author refers to is called litotes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litotes), but to say that English doesn’t use them is… not quite right.
replies(1): >>46237393 #
alwa ◴[11 Dec 25 21:27 UTC] No.46237393[source]▶
Not quite right, but not quite wrong, no? The pattern seems similar, but I think of litotes (as the Wikipedia article suggests) as a rhetorical device: the assertion-by-negation carries an ironic charge, and strikes the (Western) ear by standing out from the ordinary affirmative register.

If I'm understanding the author's account of Chinese assertion-by-negation correctly, doesn't it sound like assertion-by-negation is the ordinary case in that linguistic tradition, and it's the assertive case that jars the ear? Same pattern, different effect?

replies(6): >>46238023 #>>46239297 #>>46239761 #>>46240478 #>>46242330 #>>46242414 #
1. seszett ◴[11 Dec 25 22:17 UTC] No.46238023[source]▶
I think it's especially American English that doesn't use litotes as much as British English or the other Western European languages.

This piece seems to be very much about American English, when I read something like:

> In English, this feels bizarre. If something is good, you say: Nice Great Perfect Brilliant

replies(4): >>46238045 #>>46238827 #>>46239085 #>>46241122 #
2. messe ◴[11 Dec 25 22:19 UTC] No.46238045[source]▶
I think Hiberno-English uses them even more.
3. adw ◴[11 Dec 25 23:28 UTC] No.46238827[source]▶
Yes, that sentence is simply untrue for, at the very least, BrE. For example: https://www.the-independent.com/news/uk/home-news/chart-show... (2015)
replies(1): >>46239160 #
4. theresistor ◴[11 Dec 25 23:57 UTC] No.46239085[source]▶
Really? I read the same sentence (as an American) and immediately thought that they must be referring to British English. Certainly nobody says brilliant as an affirmation here.

And "no problem" and "not bad" are both common colloquial statements in American English.

5. paleotrope ◴[12 Dec 25 00:02 UTC] No.46239160[source]▶
This is all very familiar with this North Eastern American English speaker except the "quite good" one. The rest seem normal to me in my American English. Perhaps it's too many Dr Who and or Monty python as a youth. Though in New England the language can be very sarcastic and indirect.
6. woodruffw ◴[12 Dec 25 05:22 UTC] No.46241122[source]▶
You would absolutely say "not bad" as an idiomatic variant of "good" in American English.