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In New York City, congestion pricing leads to marked drop in pollution

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472 points Brajeshwar | 7 comments | 10 Dec 25 15:25 UTC | HN request time: 0s | source | bottom
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JumpCrisscross ◴[10 Dec 25 16:53 UTC] No.46220095[source]▶
I'm curious how congestion pricing became a national issue. The strength of conviction people have about this policy–almost either way, but certainly among those against–seems to scale with distance from the city.

Nobody in Idaho gets uppity about New Jersey's tolls. But they have strong, knowledge-free, almost identity-defining opinions about congestion charges.

Is it because it's a policy that's worked in Europe and Asia and is thus seen as foreign? Or because it's New York doing it, so it's branded as a tax, versus market-rate access or whatever we'd be calling it if this were done in Miami?

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raldi ◴[10 Dec 25 17:14 UTC] No.46220410[source]▶
It’s a national issue because as soon as one city tries it out and it turns out to be pretty good and none of the doom scenarios ensue, congestion-charge opponents all over America lose most of their talking points.

Best they can do now is, “Well, we’re not New York.”

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JumpCrisscross ◴[10 Dec 25 17:26 UTC] No.46220574[source]▶
> Best they can do now is, “Well, we’re not New York"

But that's a real argument. They're not a $1.3tn economy ($1tn of which is Manhattan alone) [1] with fewer than one car per household (0.26 in Manhattan) [2].

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_New_York_City

[2] https://www.hunterurban.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/06/Car-L...

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raldi ◴[10 Dec 25 17:33 UTC] No.46220682[source]▶
Some cities are more like New York; they’ll go first. Eventually the argument will have to be, “We’re completely unlike everywhere else in America.”
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1. afavour ◴[10 Dec 25 17:47 UTC] No.46220861{3}[source]▶
I dunno, I think there's a hard stop at "having a functioning public transit system". I could imagine DC implementing a congestion charge. Nashville less so.
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2. cogman10 ◴[10 Dec 25 20:12 UTC] No.46223067[source]▶
Sure, but that also drives the question of "why don't we have functioning public transit?" or "why aren't we building out our public transit?".

There will be a stop and balance struck everywhere, but this sort of thing really does make people that deal in the car industry nervous.

I'd gladly ditch my car tomorrow if I could catch a bus within walking distance.

I'm unfortunately 5 miles from the nearest bus stop.

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3. JumpCrisscross ◴[10 Dec 25 20:33 UTC] No.46223373[source]▶
> that also drives the question of "why don't we have functioning public transit?" or "why aren't we building out our public transit?"

The answer to which in many American cities being because there isn’t enough density.

Outside America’s 4 to six largest cities, ditching cars probably doesn’t work.

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4. mr3martinis ◴[10 Dec 25 21:02 UTC] No.46223795[source]▶
DC doesn't have a congestion charge that restricts all access to the city but it has dynamic toll road pricing that can hit rates that are far more expensive than NYC's congestion charge. It would be interesting to see an analysis comparing these 2 programs in terms of their effect on transit and air quality as well as the economics and public perception of each.
5. expedition32 ◴[10 Dec 25 21:07 UTC] No.46223858[source]▶
I recall reading that many US cities started as railway stops! Back when the iron horse was the only way to ship cargo across the US.
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6. cogman10 ◴[10 Dec 25 21:21 UTC] No.46224038{3}[source]▶
I'd argue there is, you just need good locations to board.

One problem that faces my city, as an example, is that we have a community that is being built out in a mountain area. There is a 2 lane highway going up there and, as you can imagine, it gets absolutely jam packed. On a clear day you can do the trip in 10 minutes, during rush-hour it can take over and hour.

This is the perfect place for something like a toll and a park and ride location within the community.

But instead we are maybe going to spend 10s (or maybe hundreds) of millions of dollars expanding the road.

This concept works great for airport's economy lots. It's a bit crazy that it doesn't seem to work for anywhere but the top 6 largest cities in the US.

7. JumpCrisscross ◴[10 Dec 25 22:33 UTC] No.46224907{3}[source]▶
> recall reading that many US cities started as railway stops! Back when the iron horse was the only way to ship cargo across the US

I've heard that from San Jose to San Francisco, the major towns (San Mateo, Palo Alto) are spaced about a day's laden carriage ride apart.