←back to thread

The fuck off contact page

(www.nicchan.me)
484 points OuterVale | 7 comments | 08 Dec 25 08:57 UTC | HN request time: 0.983s | source | bottom
Show context
diziet ◴[08 Dec 25 09:27 UTC] No.46190208[source]▶
"You will get less leads with the 'enterprise style' contact page. You don't have enough leads right now. You don't have low value self-serve users you want to turn away. Your BDR team is not overflowing with leads you need to turn away. You can make money from having more leads. Less leads will generate less revenue. Here are some potential metrics from the two styles of contact pages. Here is how these metrics tie into revenue."

I think an honest message like this, at least communicated via email to the budget owners would abscond... or at least absolve one of any guilt.

Also, thank you for having the option to toggle the font. I wrote a css rule, but found it later.

replies(5): >>46190314 #>>46190363 #>>46190410 #>>46190449 #>>46190901 #
1. Veen ◴[08 Dec 25 09:52 UTC] No.46190410[source]▶
You have to judge it client by client though. Some are amenable to and grateful for a flatly stated analysis and recommendation, even if it goes against their ideas. Some will feel belittled and undermined. You need both sorts to pay their invoices and refer their peers, so you pick your battles.
replies(1): >>46190452 #
2. oneeyedpigeon ◴[08 Dec 25 09:57 UTC] No.46190452[source]▶
> Some will feel belittled and undermined.

This has always frustrated me. You wouldn't go to a doctor, hear that you need an appendix removed, and feel "belittled and undermined"!

The 'problem' (it's a problem from my pov) is that clients simply think they know better when it comes to digital/computer/online stuff. They're used to browsing the web, so they think they know what a good website is. They know how to write a letter in MS Word, so they think they can write good web copy. Etc.

replies(4): >>46190490 #>>46190584 #>>46190703 #>>46193946 #
3. Veen ◴[08 Dec 25 10:01 UTC] No.46190490[source]▶
A lot of it is internal politics. As a consultant, you see the tip of the iceberg. There may be rational reasons for seemingly irrational decisions that you're not privy to. Your contact's boss wants it done some particular way, so your contact insists on doing it that way. Or your contact has recommended doing it some way internally, and they don't want to be made to look a fool by an outside consultant. Etc.
replies(1): >>46190610 #
4. ChrisMarshallNY ◴[08 Dec 25 10:14 UTC] No.46190584[source]▶
There’s a site that collects stories about experiences like this. It used to be called Clients From Hell, but got absorbed into a bigger site, called Not Always Right[0]. I suspect some of the stories are apocryphal, but it can be entertaining.

[0] https://notalwaysright.com/

5. ChrisMarshallNY ◴[08 Dec 25 10:18 UTC] No.46190610{3}[source]▶
That’s the topic of this classic post (Beans and Noses, by Jared Spool): https://archive.uie.com/brainsparks/2011/07/08/beans-and-nos...
6. scott_w ◴[08 Dec 25 10:30 UTC] No.46190703[source]▶
> This has always frustrated me. You wouldn't go to a doctor, hear that you need an appendix removed, and feel "belittled and undermined"!

Many people absolutely do. Hell, look at the number of people who refused to take a safe and effective vaccine during a pandemic!

> The 'problem' (it's a problem from my pov) is that clients simply think they know better when it comes to digital/computer/online stuff.

I must also say there is definitely a reasonable point to challenge your doctor. While they're an expert, they're still human. As a software engineer, I expect my non-expert colleagues to challenge me, and I've come up with better ideas as a result.

As a real-life example, I'm currently trying to get treatment for my Morton's neuroma (foot-nerve issue). The orthopaedic consultant wants to do a neurectomy but I want to investigate alternatives before taking the leap. Why? The alternatives, while they may not work, won't make things appreciable worse, whereas a neurectomy has a 3-6 month recovery if it goes well and can't really be undone if it goes wrong.

7. ryandrake ◴[08 Dec 25 16:06 UTC] No.46193946[source]▶
> You wouldn't go to a doctor, hear that you need an appendix removed, and feel "belittled and undermined"!

It happens more than you'd think, even in the HN comment section! Go to any thread where the topic is medical or diseases. Plenty of people distrust their doctor and advocate going to the doctor with your own crackpot theory you "researched" on WebMD. There's a huge anti-credential streak, even here. A lot of people see professional service providers of all kinds as "mere gatekeeping implementors of my own ideas" rather than experts in the field.