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510 points bookofjoe | 84 comments | | HN request time: 1.127s | source | bottom
1. jefftk ◴[] No.46187156[source]
> Red Baron frozen pizzas, listed on the shelf at $5, rang up at $7.65. Bounty paper towels, shelf price $10.99, rang up at $15.50.

This very rarely happens in MA, because when it does the store has to give you the item for $10 off, including if that makes it free. And they have to post a sign at the register explaining the law, which means when you're invoking it all you need to do is point at the sign.

https://www.mass.gov/info-details/consumer-pricing-accuracy-...

replies(11): >>46187346 #>>46187375 #>>46187677 #>>46188063 #>>46190237 #>>46190735 #>>46191078 #>>46192065 #>>46193681 #>>46194860 #>>46202034 #
2. underlipton ◴[] No.46187346[source]
It's different in different states. In Maryland, once a complaint is filed with the relevant authority, the store has a certain number of days to correct pricing. Most retailers will give you the misprice if it's clearly their fault in not changing the tags, as a matter of policy.

The confusion around this law is quite frustrating, though. Quite a few customers think they're entitled to not just prices on tags that haven't been updated, but prices for what are clearly entirely different products.

replies(1): >>46188007 #
3. coin ◴[] No.46187375[source]
Michigan in the 90s had a similar rule. Customer gets 10x the overcharge (up to $5 max). I can guarantee you they fixed the price immediately.

Where I live there’s no such rule I can tell you no one is correcting the price when I point out that I got overcharged (they usually shrug with “it does that sometimes”).

replies(1): >>46187813 #
4. technothrasher ◴[] No.46187677[source]
Note that this law is only for certain products. We would have people at the liquor store I used to own point out mislabeling occasionally and claim we owed them the $10 difference from this law. While we tried to work with customers when we made a pricing error, not only does the accuracy law not apply to alcoholic beverages, but it would often be illegal for us to offer the customer the mistaken price. Alcohol retailers in MA are not legally allowed to sell their products for less than they purchased them.
replies(2): >>46187779 #>>46188257 #
5. Cyclone_ ◴[] No.46187779[source]
That's probably aimed at reducing consumption.
replies(3): >>46188344 #>>46192615 #>>46249683 #
6. jimmydddd ◴[] No.46187813[source]
"It does that sometimes." I guess for some reason the minimum wage cashier was not fully invested in maximizing the customer experience.
replies(2): >>46188384 #>>46189621 #
7. hedora ◴[] No.46188007[source]
Is it a certain number of days to fix all the mispriced items?

If not, there’s an obvious loophole here. Misprice intentionally, then stop purchasing the item from your distributor if you get called on it, rotating in some similar thing. Later, bring it back with a different sku, or mispriced at some other level.

This would work well for dollar stores, which are optimized to spread in / sustain food/retail deserts.

The store is often literally the only option in town. The wouldn’t even need to sell excess warehouse inventory at the advertised price, since they could just shift supply to another state (or county/store, depending on how poorly the law is worded).

replies(1): >>46193431 #
8. burkaman ◴[] No.46188063[source]
Is this a recent law? I lived most of my life in MA and I've never heard of this, and never noticed one of those signs.
9. guelo ◴[] No.46188257[source]
Is alcohol the only exception?
replies(1): >>46191686 #
10. hunter2_ ◴[] No.46188344{3}[source]
I assume eliminating the "loss leader" concept is the main effect, since shops shouldn't otherwise price things as losses regardless? In which case it seems like it's meant to maintain some friction / overhead for people wanting to visit the stores, possibly reducing consumption at least for the price-sensitive.
replies(2): >>46191855 #>>46195005 #
11. Buttons840 ◴[] No.46188384{3}[source]
Somehow the entity exploiting both parties of the exchange is not actually present or accountable for anything that happens in the exchange.
12. Rechtsstaat ◴[] No.46189621{3}[source]
See: 'accountability sinks'[1]

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41891694]

13. zahlman ◴[] No.46190237[source]
... American "dollar stores" have items in the first place at $10+? I thought it was already amusing when Dollarama reached the $5 CAD threshold.
replies(1): >>46192402 #
14. b3lvedere ◴[] No.46190735[source]
Once i had a very amusing discusson with a store that sold laptops.

I wanted to purchase a laptop at the advertised price. The sales person told me i was in luck, because all their laptops came preinstalled with Microsoft Office for a little extra money. I told him politely i did not want to buy Microsoft Office, even for such little extra money. I just wanted the laptop.

Semi-flabbergasted he told me this was not possible, because all the laptops had Office pre-installed. I told him i did not care and wanted to buy the laptop for the adverstised price.

After 15 minutes of discussion, some manager came frustrated what the problem was. I pointed to the price tag and told him i wanted to buy the laptop for that price exactly and if that was possible. It was, but it would require uninstalling Office, which took them another 15 minutes.

So i waited for another 15 minutes so they could remove Office. Back at home i powered on the laptop, popped in a usb disk and removed every partition that its harddisk ever had and started a nice fresh install without any bloatware.

replies(6): >>46191252 #>>46192253 #>>46192285 #>>46194440 #>>46194782 #>>46195286 #
15. mvc ◴[] No.46191078[source]
How long has this been the law? I lived in Boston for a while and don't remember this.
replies(1): >>46192206 #
16. cbdevidal ◴[] No.46191252[source]
The irony is even though Dollar Tree prices are honest because they all are the same $1.25 (excluding the new “More Choices” $3-5 items) they’re still ripping you off. I always shop on a per-unit basis e.g. dollars per pound or cents per ounce, since that’s how I actually eat food. I need a certain amount of calories and a certain quantity of food to survive, and the less I pay per unit, the lower overall cost. On a per-unit basis, DT is almost always the most expensive store around, because quantities are so small!

There are of course exceptions; I can recall not long ago for example buying a pound of Himalayan sea salt for a dollar. That was a solid deal, and I haven’t seen it since.

But generally speaking, if you want to save money, don’t go to Dollar Tree.

replies(9): >>46191367 #>>46192392 #>>46192677 #>>46192752 #>>46192793 #>>46192867 #>>46192886 #>>46193023 #>>46193530 #
17. jtbayly ◴[] No.46191367{3}[source]
Unless you are buying cards. Maybe candy, too? I’d be curious about that.
18. voxic11 ◴[] No.46191686{3}[source]
It's in the article linked

> When buying groceries—food and non-alcoholic beverages, pet food or supplies, disposable paper or plastic products, soap, household cleaners, laundry products, or light bulbs—you must be charged the lowest displayed price, whether on the sticker, scanner, website, or app.

replies(1): >>46196063 #
19. SOLAR_FIELDS ◴[] No.46191855{4}[source]
In Texas the law exists as well, phrased as cannot offer price below wholesale price for alcohol which in effect bans “bottomless/all you can drink” deals as well. It is indeed designed as a way to discourage consumption
20. ◴[] No.46192065[source]
21. jefftk ◴[] No.46192206[source]
I remember it from at least 2014, and wrote about it in 2019: https://www.jefftk.com/p/ma-price-accuracy-law
22. crazygringo ◴[] No.46192253[source]
That's actually fascinating, because they surely weren't tracking the actual Office license keys, and getting their money back. The manager literally uninstalled Office just to spite you. That's super funny! Especially since it made zero difference to you in the end.
replies(2): >>46192805 #>>46193097 #
23. greenavocado ◴[] No.46192285[source]
Was this in the US? I never purchased computers from people in a storefront.
replies(2): >>46192420 #>>46193713 #
24. schnable ◴[] No.46192392{3}[source]
That's not really a rip off, it caters to people who can't afford to buy in larger quantities.
replies(1): >>46192762 #
25. sgerenser ◴[] No.46192402[source]
Family Dollar and Dollar General (the subjects of this piece) are not traditional “dollar stores” (and haven’t been in a long time) despite having Dollar in the name. They’re just discount stores, like a smaller Wal-Mart. Dollar Tree, on the other hand, had long been a traditional dollar store where most items are priced at a dollar. However after pandemic-induced inflation they have mostly changed to a $1.25-$1.50 price point and now have a number of items marked above that as well.
replies(1): >>46193717 #
26. satvikpendem ◴[] No.46192420{3}[source]
This is possible in the US but I'm sure in many other countries too where electronics and computer stores exist, not even counting the wide swath of Apple stores around the world.
27. gwbas1c ◴[] No.46192615{3}[source]
There's a lot of old laws that special case alcohol in the US; mostly artifacts of prohibition and temperance movements.
replies(2): >>46194470 #>>46249762 #
28. CyberDildonics ◴[] No.46192677{3}[source]
There are some things at dollar tree that are a good deal and some that aren't.

I think part of the appeal when everything was a dollar was so that people would know exactly how much it would be when they went to check out. Then they could manage a little bit of money with precision.

29. account42 ◴[] No.46192752{3}[source]
> I always shop on a per-unit basis e.g. dollars per pound or cents per ounce, since that’s how I actually eat food.

For staples that's definitely sensible but surely there are also times where you need one-off items where any extra amount would just be waste?

replies(1): >>46205469 #
30. account42 ◴[] No.46192762{4}[source]
That makes it sound even more like a rip off tbh.
replies(2): >>46195069 #>>46195545 #
31. opendomain ◴[] No.46192793{3}[source]
SO what do you buy for food and where do you buy it?

With your focus on calories per dollar, do you also get supplements? Which ones and where?

Why are you so focused on this?

replies(2): >>46195024 #>>46196293 #
32. zamadatix ◴[] No.46192805{3}[source]
I give it an even split between spite and genuinely not understanding how software licensing is tracked/preinstalled trials work, thinking "if they don't buy the office addon I need to make sure they don't receive one with the office addon" as they would have to do with most other products.
replies(1): >>46193126 #
33. mastax ◴[] No.46192867{3}[source]
You may be shocked to hear that there are no seas in the Himalayas.
replies(1): >>46193486 #
34. harimau777 ◴[] No.46192886{3}[source]
That sounds like it's basically the grocery equivalent of the boot theory of poverty. Poor people have to pay more in the long run because they can't afford to buy in bulk.
replies(3): >>46194136 #>>46194418 #>>46195536 #
35. raw_anon_1111 ◴[] No.46193023{3}[source]
Yes because when I need a small bag of snacks to put in my backpack before a flight, my first stop is to Costco and buy everything I need in bulk.
36. sarchertech ◴[] No.46193097{3}[source]
I worked at Geek Squad almost 20 years ago and here’s how it went.

We would preinstall office on say 80% of the door buster laptops for something like $29. Most people used office so they’d pay it. Occasionally some people didn’t want it so they’d buy a bare laptop.

If all the bare laptops had been sold, we’d remove office from one of the preinstalled laptops. Then we’d take the box and send it back to the inventory guys to process and get credit back from the vendor. As part of that process we were supposed to verify to Microsoft that the product wasn’t installed on any machines.

So they weren’t tracking keys, but the manager wasn’t doing it to spite the OP, he was just doing what the vendor asked for.

replies(1): >>46193405 #
37. sarchertech ◴[] No.46193126{4}[source]
I did many of these preinstalls 20 years ago. When you get credit back from Microsoft they ask you to make sure the key isn’t installed anywhere. They don’t track it, but it is a retirement from the vendor not a misunderstanding on the part of the manager.
38. crazygringo ◴[] No.46193405{4}[source]
Oh thanks, that's really interesting. It makes more sense if there's a physical box involved -- I don't remember ever getting physical boxes for preinstalled software, but it makes sense that way.
replies(1): >>46194083 #
39. underlipton ◴[] No.46193431{3}[source]
This seems to be the handbook for price complaint inspections following a complaint to the relevant authority (in this case, the Maryland Office of the Attorney General).

https://mda.maryland.gov/Documents/HANDBOOK%20130%20Examinat...

Practically-speaking, stores have at least as long as it takes for an inspector to come out to the physical location. So, yes, it's a bit of a loophole, but I imagine that if you're mispricing as a matter of course and getting hit with complaints and constant inspections, you're probably going to eventually get fined (unless you're paying off inspectors). Store operations are usually designed to catch mistakes, as half the job is making sure items are stocked and labeled correctly. (I think most stores would prefer to transition to essentially local warehouses that delivered to customers from online orders, so that they wouldn't have to deal with any of this, but then they'd lose out on impulse purchases.)

40. williamdclt ◴[] No.46193486{4}[source]
Well ackshually, Himalayan salt does come from a sea (although this sea has disappeared a long long time ago) so it's not _technically_ wrong
replies(1): >>46194074 #
41. froglets ◴[] No.46193530{3}[source]
Dollar Tree regular items aren’t all $1.25 anymore. Maybe half of what I’ve purchased there recently (mostly craft/gift wrap/party supplies) have changed to $1.50 or $1.75. If you grab multiple of the same item each one can ring up a different price.
42. tadzikpk ◴[] No.46193681[source]
I live in MA and wish that this were true, but do you have data / evidence to support that it rarely happens? Also, I don't know if you have tried to get your $10, but it's not like the sign is always obvious and every time I've tried, it's not like the cashier says "oops" and gives you the thing for free - they call a manager, the manager argues with you, other customers complain about the checkout delay you've created... there's social pressure there so I can understand why customers would not do this even when they can.
replies(4): >>46193942 #>>46194389 #>>46195590 #>>46195722 #
43. b3lvedere ◴[] No.46193713{3}[source]
No. Western Europe.
44. MangoToupe ◴[] No.46193717{3}[source]
Even referring to them as discount stores is disingenuous as the items are mostly more expensive per unit, per weight, than at competitors.
45. stronglikedan ◴[] No.46193942[source]
> other customers complain about the checkout delay you've created

Other customers are complaining about the checkout delay the store created, so I'm not worried about what they think.

46. ◴[] No.46194074{5}[source]
47. bragr ◴[] No.46194083{5}[source]
I do. Up until 2005ish, Office install CDs and the code would be in the box with the PC. You needed them if you wanted to install optional features (or reinstall). Stores rarely did the full install.
replies(1): >>46196231 #
48. the_sleaze_ ◴[] No.46194136{4}[source]
This is exactly right and the reason that Costco shoppers are un-intuitively among the richest groups in the country (average $125,000 household income).
replies(1): >>46195533 #
49. ◴[] No.46194389[source]
50. kccqzy ◴[] No.46194418{4}[source]
It’s slightly different for groceries. I am not poor but I also don’t want to buy perishables in bulk. I can choose to buy one week’s worth of lettuce to be eaten in a week, but by the seventh day the lettuce has visibly degraded. I want fresher produce, so I am willing to buy smaller amounts every two days.
replies(1): >>46195602 #
51. dylan604 ◴[] No.46194440[source]
I was really waiting for this to be a Windows bloatware where Linux laptops are cheaper since there's no unnecessary Microsoft license at all. So you are principled in not wanting to use Office, but unprincipled enough to go ahead and use Windows?? That's a bold position on HN. Linux or death!!!!
replies(2): >>46194533 #>>46196728 #
52. dylan604 ◴[] No.46194470{4}[source]
Can't buy alcohol before noon on Sunday is one of my faves.
replies(1): >>46197091 #
53. thekid314 ◴[] No.46194533{3}[source]
This will be the year of Linux on the desktop!
replies(1): >>46200607 #
54. knowitnone3 ◴[] No.46194782[source]
but you re-installed Windows which is the definition of bloatware and malware.
replies(1): >>46196827 #
55. knowitnone3 ◴[] No.46194860[source]
so if I find one that is has the wrong price and get $10 off, I could potentially "buy" all of them for free?
replies(1): >>46195585 #
56. thefringthing ◴[] No.46195005{4}[source]
Selling at a loss can also be a monopolistic practice: a firm with enough capital can sell at a loss to capture the market, and then buy out their now-flailing competition.
57. bee_rider ◴[] No.46195024{4}[source]
Is there any reason to assume they are “so focused” on it? Keeping an eye on unit or per-weight prices is somewhat conventional and pretty easy—at least I think most major grocery chains around here include that info right on the sticker.
replies(1): >>46200577 #
58. ◴[] No.46195069{5}[source]
59. calmworm ◴[] No.46195286[source]
They do this same type of thing at car dealerships everywhere. Some pre-installed dealer add-on they just tack onto the total. Annoying.
60. brookst ◴[] No.46195533{5}[source]
Costco is great for wealthy families, less so for less wealthy. People living in small apartments have no place to put 36 rolls of paper towels and 12 jars of pasta sauce.

Having a large home is a prerequisite for shopping at Costco.

replies(1): >>46209321 #
61. order-matters ◴[] No.46195536{4}[source]
In addition to the other comment about perishables, storage space is another meaningful limiting factor that can vary with income level. Both the raw volume of available storage and the quality of the storage on things like temperature control, energy usage, accessibility, etc
62. brookst ◴[] No.46195545{5}[source]
Would you quote the same hourly rate to someone who wanted one hour of time versus a six month contract?
63. ◴[] No.46195585[source]
64. micromacrofoot ◴[] No.46195590[source]
If this happens you can file a consumer complaint with the attorney general's office... https://www.mass.gov/how-to/file-a-consumer-complaint

They do follow up with serial offenders.

65. brendoelfrendo ◴[] No.46195602{5}[source]
When they say "groceries" they're not just referring to fresh produce but also to things like cereal, dried goods, canned goods, or other foods you might find at a dollar store. Though some of these stores like Dollar General do also stock fresh foods like eggs, meat, dairy, and produce.
66. jefftk ◴[] No.46195722[source]
I've done this many times, and it usually takes about 5min (which sounds short, but isn't really that short). There is social pressure, but it's even stronger on the store than it is on you as a customer.
67. FireBeyond ◴[] No.46196063{4}[source]
In Australia, when scanners became common, the law was "in the event of a mismatch, the consumer gets first item free, and any subsequent items at the lower price".
68. sarchertech ◴[] No.46196231{6}[source]
Even after 2005 they still had physical boxes, just not with CDs.
69. pessimizer ◴[] No.46196293{4}[source]
You did not understand the comment. The person is talking about units per dollar, not necessarily calories per dollar, or anything about health. If I can buy one sponge for $1.25 and three sponges for $3, for example, I prefer three. This has nothing to do with how many calories are in a sponge.
70. b3lvedere ◴[] No.46196728{3}[source]
My brother in law needed that laptop for his studies back then. Since he does not annoy me with countless IT related requests like some other family members tend to do and he did not have much money, i did some research for him. School supplied all the necessary licenses for free and i installed an extremely optimised Windows.
71. b3lvedere ◴[] No.46196827{3}[source]
His studies required it.
72. gwbas1c ◴[] No.46197091{5}[source]
Don't want people stumbling into church drunk!

(That being said, even though I think it's a silly rule, it just seems to exist to annoy alcoholics who can't plan ahead. I'm not an alcoholic, and I rarely consume alcohol before noon, so I just laugh at people who whine about this law.)

replies(1): >>46197319 #
73. dylan604 ◴[] No.46197319{6}[source]
Was at the airport on a trip with friends with the flight leaving before noon. None of the bars could sell. We are not alcoholics, but we were on vacation. Well, we were trying to start the vacation but had to wait until leaving uptight red state
replies(1): >>46205342 #
74. fc417fc802 ◴[] No.46200577{5}[source]
At least where I'm at they're legally required to include that info and they appear to comply maliciously whenever possible. Sometimes it's slightly wrong. Often the unit of weight changes between items of the same sort. It's absurd.
replies(1): >>46209335 #
75. fc417fc802 ◴[] No.46200607{4}[source]
TBF between SteamOS and ChromeOS I'd say that already happened some time ago.
76. fy20 ◴[] No.46202034[source]
Right, as a UK tabloid I'm surprised they didn't mention that the UK has similar laws. If you are overcharged you can ask for a refund, and the store has to honour it:

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/somethings-gone-w...

In the 00s I worked for a supermarket that would always honour the price on the label if you pointed out an error (we'd then remove the label with the error).

We had teams that would regularly check all the labels to make sure they are not out of date. Nowadays many stores where I live now use e-paper displays that update automatically.

77. gwbas1c ◴[] No.46205342{7}[source]
> Well, we were trying to start the vacation but had to wait until leaving uptight red state

I live in Massachusetts, the bluest of blue states, and we still have special laws about Alcohol on Sunday. According to Gemini, Logan airport can't start serving until 10 a.m. (Because in Massachusetts, we don't want you getting drunk on the way to your Unitarian or interfaith Sunday service after you get off of your red-eye flight.)

You can also try reading https://www.mass.gov/guides/working-on-sundays-and-holidays-... if you have the time.

78. cbdevidal ◴[] No.46205469{4}[source]
Not usually but yes at times DT makes sense.

And yes there are times when some cannot always afford bigger quantities. But we’re not talking about 50 pound bags at Costco here; The price per pound for a ten pound bag of something at Walmart vs a six ouncer at DT is substantial.

replies(1): >>46209296 #
79. angmarsbane ◴[] No.46209296{5}[source]
We used to buy raspberries, blackberries, blueberries etc at Dollar Stores. They wouldn't last a week in the fridge which is why they were at the Dollar Store, but we were eating them same-day or next day so spoilage wasn't a concern. Really helped the berry budget with toddlers.
80. angmarsbane ◴[] No.46209321{6}[source]
We live in an apartment but use Costco to stock our freezer with meat and seafood. We also use it for gas, cat litter, eggs, and cheese (lasts a long time). Basically for perishables that only need to be stored so long.
replies(1): >>46213619 #
81. angmarsbane ◴[] No.46209335{6}[source]
I've been using Gemini or Chat GPT in store to quickly calculate the cost-per when two like items use different measures ex. ounces vs. lbs.
82. brookst ◴[] No.46213619{7}[source]
Which is great, but you receive a fraction of the benefit wealthy households do.
83. fsckboy ◴[] No.46249683{3}[source]
>That's probably aimed at reducing consumption.

it's aimed at not encouraging consumption which is slightly different. you can have a "hungry hour" where you entice people with food bargains and sell them alcohol, but you can't have a "happy hour" where you entice people with alcohol bargains.

it is also in keeping with other laws intended to create a competitive/collusion free market (not saying the crafting of those laws was not influenced by incumbents trying to maintain their share)

84. fsckboy ◴[] No.46249762{4}[source]
>There's a lot of old laws that special case alcohol in the US

yes there are, but the anti happy hour laws are only from the 1970-80s, Mothers Against Drunk Driving, raise the drinking age campaigns.

the previous round of laws like that were from the Temperance, Prohibition, lifting of Prohibition periods.

then before that, yes the Puritan Blue Laws.