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126 points petermcneeley | 29 comments | | HN request time: 2.426s | source | bottom
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appreciatorBus ◴[] No.46177701[source]
> "We don't want to spend half a year of our lives locked up in barracks, being trained in drill and obedience and learning to kill," the organisers of the protests wrote in a statement posted on social media. "War offers no prospects for the future and destroys our livelihoods."

Is the idea that it’s better for your livelihood to just start learning how speak Russian now?

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venturecruelty ◴[] No.46177896[source]
I think a lot of young people look at all of the wars waged post-WWII and are rightfully opposed to fighting for their governments. Would you want to die for nothing in Vietnam? Probably not, and a lot of other people didn't want to as well. Some of them did anyway, and it was all for nothing.

So please have some grace if today's kids have looked back at our miserable history and have decided that they'd rather not die for a country that doesn't seem to give a shit about them.

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1. appreciatorBus ◴[] No.46177966[source]
Putin will happily take over your home, even if you thought Viet Nam was a waste.
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2. jasonvorhe ◴[] No.46180552[source]
Had to imagine Putin moving into someone's 45sqm flat in the suburbs after his evil empire invaded somewhere. Had to chuckle, thanks for that.
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3. hkpack ◴[] No.46181131[source]
Yeah, it will technically not be Putin himself, but someone from russia's poor regions, while you will be forcibly send to the grinder.

This all happened multiple times, and the only reason you can chuckle is ignorance.

replies(1): >>46181167 #
4. jasonvorhe ◴[] No.46181167{3}[source]
I chuckled because of the s/Russia/Putin/g nonsense everywhere. I'm not laughing at anyone's expense if they forcibly lose their home, no matter where and under which circumstances.
replies(1): >>46181222 #
5. hkpack ◴[] No.46181222{4}[source]
You see, millions are already killed in the biggest war in Europe since WW2 and it looks like this is just the prelude.

Russia is threatening to fight Europe as of yesterday, continue to increase weapon production and militarisation. It is obvious that it just cannot stop as its economy and social order is switching more and more to the war-time. China backs russia up and officially declaring that it cannot allow Russia to lose.

The alliance which was created specifically to stop this scenario is now being neutralised by US withdrawing from it.

And you still call it "Russia/Putin nonsense". Do you live somewhere where you feel isolated from all of this?

Please tell me so I can go there as well. Because at the place where I live - Russians drones are flying over important infrastructure mapping it out without government/military being able to stop it. Russians propaganda fills social media, and politicians are corrupted by russia without hiding it too much.

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6. jasonvorhe ◴[] No.46181355{5}[source]
You misunderstand. I'm not against reporting about Russia. The oversimplification of reducing everything down to "Putin this, Putin that" is my issue. Imagine me saying everything the EU is doing is explicitly because of Ursel. It's stupid, ignorant and reminds me of Trump Derangement Syndrome which had a similar effect on reporting about US issues.

I live in Germany so I'm fucked either way. I'm also aware of NATO expansion until a point where Russia couldn't ignore it anymore. You think Russia will attack Europe, I think the West is keen on fighting a war against Russia. I don't subscribe to any of the narratives you presented, especially since I think it obvious that its the West that finds itself having to wage a war because their currencies, social order and demographics needing a reset. NATO being a defensive alliance is a joke.

Since we're unlikely to come closer to an understanding I'll refrain from going further.

Sometimes it's just easier to agree to disagree.

May we all live through this somehow.

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7. jasonvorhe ◴[] No.46181378{5}[source]
Also what about that "millions" number? Where did that come from? I can barely find any mentions of numbers exceeding 500.000 people being killed thus far.
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8. hkpack ◴[] No.46181634{6}[source]
> You think Russia will attack Europe, I think the West is keen on fighting a war against Russia.

And the way it was keen on fighting a war is (check notes) _increase economic ties to the point that the whole of Germany's economic growth was dependent on Russian' gas_? Or to reduce military spending year over the year? Or to stop conscription in all countries?

It is completely a wild take for me to hear that the west was keen to fight a war with nuclear power by the means of reducing its fighting abilities to almost zero while the other side militarises? Am I having some crazy dream?

9. hkpack ◴[] No.46181800{6}[source]
Sorry, I meant killed and injured. I don't keep up with the numbers, but few years ago it was at least around half a million from both sides. I extrapolated it for last few years.
10. yakshaving_jgt ◴[] No.46182004{6}[source]
> I'm also aware of NATO expansion until a point where Russia couldn't ignore it anymore.

Are you?

Tell us — for how long has NATO been on russia's border?

> You think Russia will attack Europe

No, we have observed that russia has already attacked Europe.

11. nsoqm ◴[] No.46182448{5}[source]
Are you of fighting age? In other words, are you putting your life on the line, or you just think that “someone else” should die to protect you?
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12. flohofwoe ◴[] No.46182549{6}[source]
> I live in Germany so I'm fucked either way.

Honest question: why don't you emigrate to Russia since you seem to admire it so much? They are specifically looking for people who 'share Russian values', and Germany is on the 'white list' - so acquiring citizenship should be really easy and you don't need to live in a country you apparently seem to hate.

Here's how it works:

https://russianresidency.com/

https://mid.ru/upload/medialibrary/aef/94mfg4ehws6kav1nk8bts...

13. Nextgrid ◴[] No.46183208[source]
You mean the home of a boomer that you have to continuously pay an ever-increasing share of your wages for so he can just sit there and live off your labor?

I don't think you'll find much sympathy for that class among the people this reform is targeting.

14. distances ◴[] No.46183792{6}[source]
> I'm also aware of NATO expansion

This is the Russian way of putting it. Guess what, NATO doesn't "expand". Each and every NATO member had to apply for membership themselves, after a national decision to do so. Any guesses why all Russian neighbours want to be NATO members?

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15. samdoesnothing ◴[] No.46184441[source]
Haha you think the youth own homes? It'll be young people dying so old people get richer just like every other war.
16. samdoesnothing ◴[] No.46184449{6}[source]
Everybody who talks like this is unwilling to fight themselves.
17. jasonvorhe ◴[] No.46184516{7}[source]
Keep on ignoring Western intelligence influence on color revolutions and political instability at your own peril. I'm out.
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18. nephihaha ◴[] No.46187510{7}[source]
Bit hard to paint Portugal, Spain, France, and Britain as Russia's neighbours. All enthusiastic NATO members.
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19. distances ◴[] No.46189321{8}[source]
You may have to read my comment again, I was not reinventing geography.
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20. yakshaving_jgt ◴[] No.46190536{8}[source]
Of course you're "out" when an inconvenient question lands in your lap.

I'll ask you again.

For how long has NATO been on russia's border?

I know you've seen this comment. I know you've downvoted it and ignored it because it's at odds with your sympathy towards terrorists.

And all this from a guy who has never actually even been to russia.

palm_penetrating_forehead.gif

21. nephihaha ◴[] No.46190714{9}[source]
I didn't say you were. I live in a NATO member myself which is nowhere near Russia and yet keeps baiting Russia and using it as an easy scapegoat for its issues... Now and then it's true. Thankfully I haven't been accused of being a Russian bot for a while. :)
22. IAmBroom ◴[] No.46210104{6}[source]
> The oversimplification of reducing everything down to "Putin this, Putin that" is my issue. Imagine me saying everything the EU is doing is explicitly because of Ursel. It's stupid, ignorant and reminds me of Trump Derangement Syndrome which had a similar effect on reporting about US issues.

Those oversimplifications are in fact also really at the core of the issues. Russia without Putin would be far less likely to have quagmired itself in this economy-wrecking show of technical and strategic incompetence. His navy is intimidated by a nation without active seamen! His invasion forces got stuck on the way in, for weeks!

And in the US, it has literally been proven career suicide, time and time again, for a GOP politician to buck the line, even a little, against that demented, narcissistic idiot. I can't believe the nation has not only created, but sustained, this freakish coopting of half the government - but it has. If Trump says he likes poop-flavored ice cream, GOP senators will line up for their brown-lipped photo ops. I guarantee it.

It's hard to make adequate satire of these two hellish clowns.

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23. jasonvorhe ◴[] No.46212101{7}[source]
Who isn't a complete jester nowadays? Can you take anyone serious who has some impact and public presence? It's one big complete that most of us aren't in. Zelensky is a coke head, he's surrounded by proud fascists wearing their symbols while EU is talking of saving democracy by propping up a government that cancelled it's elections. Scholz stood next to Biden while he proclaimed that the US will end NS2. People get debanked for having wrong opinions but it's all meant to keep our freedoms. You can't take any of it seriously anymore.
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24. yakshaving_jgt ◴[] No.46215350{8}[source]
Stop spreading Kremlin bullshit here.

Why do you keep ignoring my question?

How long has NATO been on russia’s border?

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25. jasonvorhe ◴[] No.46217700{9}[source]
1999 or 2004.
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26. yakshaving_jgt ◴[] No.46217780{10}[source]
So how the fuck can russia’s narrative of the war being about “NATO expansion” and preventing NATO from appearing on russia’s border hold any water when NATO has been on russia’s border since even before Putin was in office?

Exactly what is driving you to simp so hard for a terrorist regime here?

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27. jasonvorhe ◴[] No.46218530{11}[source]
All that rhetoric. I get it, you're Ukrainian, you've been psyopped into oblivion since at least the 2014 coup so I get why you're acting the way you do.

Watch Putin's 2007 address at the Munich Security Conference. If you don't, well, whatever. If you do, you'll at least be equipped to understand my position here.

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28. yakshaving_jgt ◴[] No.46218654{12}[source]
No, you don’t get it, because I’m not Ukrainian.

I understand your position just fine. You are a useful idiot for the kremlin; brainwashed by fucking terrorists.

Disgusting, shameful behaviour.

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29. jasonvorhe ◴[] No.46218719{13}[source]
Well, you mentioned living in Odessa in 2022 but I shouldn't have assumed your nationality based on that, sorry about that.

And yet you're the one doing all the name calling, not me. I'll ignore this thread from now on, you're obviously not able to have a reasonable exchange of opinions. Bye.