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    295 points todsacerdoti | 11 comments | | HN request time: 1.613s | source | bottom
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    RyanHamilton ◴[] No.45947834[source]
    Less incentive to write small libraries. Less incentive to write small tutorials on your own website. Unless you are a hacker or a spammer where your incentives have probably increased. We are entering the era of cheap spam of everything with little incentive for quality. All this for the best case outcome of most people being made unemployed and rolling the dice on society reorganising to that reality.
    replies(5): >>45947867 #>>45947950 #>>45947961 #>>45948882 #>>45950202 #
    NitpickLawyer ◴[] No.45947961[source]
    > or a spammer where your incentives have probably increased.

    Slight pushback on this. The web has been spammed with subpar tutorials for ages now. The kind of medium "articles" that are nothing more than "getting started" steps + slop that got popular circa 2017-2019 is imo worse than the listy-boldy-emojy-filled articles that the LLMs come up with. So nothing gained, nothing lost imo. You still have to learn how to skim and get signals quickly.

    I'd actually argue that now it's easier to winnow the slop. I can point my cc running in a devcontainer to a "tutorial" or lib / git repo and say something like "implement this as an example covering x and y, success condition is this and that, I want it to work like this, etc.", and come back and see if it works. It's like a litmus test of a tutorial/approach/repo. Can my cc understand it? Then it'll be worth my time looking into it. If it can't, well, find a different one.

    I think we're seeing the "low hanging fruit" of slop right now, and there's an overcorrection of attitude against "AI". But I also see that I get more and more workflows working for me, more or less tailored, more or less adapted for me and my uses. That's cool. And it's powered by the same underlying tech.

    replies(3): >>45948026 #>>45948155 #>>45948326 #
    AstroBen ◴[] No.45948155[source]
    The difference is that the cost of slop has decreased by orders of magnitude. What happens when only 1 in 10,000 of those tutorials you can find is any good, from someone actually qualified to write it?
    replies(2): >>45948823 #>>45948923 #
    NewsaHackO ◴[] No.45948823[source]
    One instance of definite benefit of AI is AI summary web search. Searching for answers to simple questions and not having to cut though SEO slop is such an improvement
    replies(4): >>45948910 #>>45948944 #>>45948946 #>>45950177 #
    1. cml123 ◴[] No.45948946[source]
    I don't think searching for answers to simple questions was a problem until Google nerfed their own search engine.
    replies(3): >>45951102 #>>45951361 #>>45955688 #
    2. NewsaHackO ◴[] No.45951102[source]
    Pretty sure Google attempting to curb SEO tactics is what led to whatever nerfing you are talking about.
    replies(2): >>45954059 #>>45962010 #
    3. whatevertrevor ◴[] No.45951361[source]
    I don't understand this position, do you have direct evidence that Google actively made search worse? Before I'm misunderstood I do want to clarify that IMO, the end user experience for web searching on Google is much worse in 2025 than it was in say 2000. But, the web was also much much smaller, less commercial and the SNR was much better in general.

    Sure, web search companies moved away from direct keyword matching to much more complex "semantics-adjacent" matching algorithms. But we don't have the counterfactual keyword-based Google search algorithm from 2000 on data from 2025 to claim that it's just search getting worse, or the problem simply getting much harder over time and Google failing to keep up with it.

    In light of that, I'm much more inclined to believe that it's SEO spam becoming an industry that killed web search instead of companies "nerfing their own search engines".

    replies(2): >>45952030 #>>45952221 #
    4. friendzis ◴[] No.45952030[source]
    > In light of that, I'm much more inclined to believe that it's SEO spam becoming an industry that killed web search instead of companies "nerfing their own search engines".

    "SEO" is not some magic, it is "compliance with ranking rules of the search engine". Google wanted to make their lives easier, implemented heuristics ranking slop higher, resulting in two things happening simultaneously: information to slop ratio decreasing AND information getting buried deeper and deeper within SRPs.

    > do you have direct evidence that Google actively made search worse?

    https://support.google.com/google-ads/answer/10286719?hl=en-... Google is literally rewriting the queries. Not only results with better potential for ads outrank more organic results, it is impossible to instruct the search engine to not show you storefronts even if you tried.

    5. johnnyanmac ◴[] No.45952221[source]
    >do you have direct evidence that Google actively made search worse?

    sure. https://www.wheresyoured.at/the-men-who-killed-google/

    >These emails — which I encourage you to look up — tell a dramatic story about how Google’s finance and advertising teams, led by Raghavan with the blessing of CEO Sundar Pichai, actively worked to make Google worse to make the company more money. This is what I mean when I talk about the Rot Economy — the illogical, product-destroying mindset that turns the products you love into torturous, frustrating quasi-tools that require you to fight the company’s intentions to get the service you want.

    Of course, it's hard to "objectively" prove that they literally made search worse, but it's clear they were fine with stagnating in order to maximize ad revenue.

    I see it as the same way Tinder works if you want the mentality. There's a point where being "optimal" hurts your bottom line, so you don't desire achieving a perfect algorithm. Meanwhile, it can be so bad for Google that directly searching for a blog title at times can leave me unsuccessful.

    replies(1): >>45952868 #
    6. eloisant ◴[] No.45952868{3}[source]
    > I see it as the same way Tinder works if you want the mentality. There's a point where being "optimal" hurts your bottom line, so you don't desire achieving a perfect algorithm

    Yes, in the case of Google:

    - They make more money from ads if the organic results are not as good (especially if it's not clear they're add)

    - They get more impressions if you don't find the answer at the first search and have to try a different query

    replies(1): >>45955636 #
    7. cml123 ◴[] No.45954059[source]
    granted it's not up to courtroom standards, this post linked by another commenter in the chain does paint the picture pretty well of an internal struggle between Search and Ads inside Google as a company, where there was a decision to promote user-negative changes to Search as a way to increase the total number of searches performed, thereby increasing the number of ads that can be shown. This happened during 2019.

    https://www.wheresyoured.at/the-men-who-killed-google/

    8. SoftTalker ◴[] No.45955636{4}[source]
    This is entirely because "we" insist on search being free. This means Google needs to find other ways to pay for it, which creates a different set of incentives.

    If we somehow paid directly for search, then Google's incentives would be to make search good so that we'd be happy customers and come back again, rather than find devious ways to show us more ads.

    Most people put up with the current search experience because they'd rather have "free" than "good" and we see this attitude in all sorts of other markets as well, where we pay for cheap products that fail over and over rather than paying once (but more) for something good, or we trade our personal information and privacy for a discount.

    replies(1): >>45959133 #
    9. skrtskrt ◴[] No.45955688[source]
    Google was unable or unwilling to fight people gaming their SEO to float garbage and blogspam to the top results, waay before these more specific policy change events that have been reported w.r.t intentionally making search worse.
    10. johnnyanmac ◴[] No.45959133{5}[source]
    When I get a full time job, Kagi is the first thing I'm buying a subsciption for. It's not perfect, but I want to at least show a demand. I'm willing to contribute premiums for proper services that won't mine all my data and is actually beholden to customers
    11. ◴[] No.45962010[source]