Steam Frame

Frame is obviously the main headline here, but they've also launching a new SteamOS mini-PC and a new controller.

https://store.steampowered.com/sale/steammachine

https://store.steampowered.com/sale/steamcontroller

No prices listed for any of them yet, as far as I can tell.

Real shame it’s only 60Hz at 4k. There’s a gap for good 120Hz@4k streaming.

Hoping the next Apple TV will do it.

Edit - updated specs claim it can do this, but it’s limited to HDMI 2.0

(rewriting this comment because the spec sheet has seemingly been updated)

Looks like it can do 4k 120hz, but since it's limited to HDMI 2.0 it will have to rely on 4:2:0 chroma subsampling to get there. Unfortunately the lack of HDMI 2.1 might be down to politics, the RDNA3 GPU they're using should support it in hardware, but the HDMI Forum has blocked AMD from releasing an open source HDMI 2.1 implementation.

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/02/hdmi-forum-to-amd-no...

... but isn't it using a wireless dongle to connect to the headset to the PC so HDMI doesn't get involved?

It seems to me the wireless is pretty important. I have an MQ3 and I have the link cable. For software development I pretty much have to plug the MQ3 into my PC and it is not so bad to wander around the living room looking in a Mars boulder from all sides and such.

For games and apps that involve moving around, particularly things like Beat Saber or Supernatural the standalone headset has a huge advantage of having no cable. If I have a choice between buying a game on Steam or the MQ3 store I'm likely to buy the MQ3 game because of the convenience and freedom of standalone. A really good wireless link changes that.

> but isn't it using a wireless dongle to connect to the headset to the PC so HDMI doesn't get involved?

I'm talking about the Steam Machine here. In theory you could pipe 4k120 to the headset assuming there's enough wireless bandwidth, yeah.

Where are you getting this number? I'm not seeing it on the specs page.

This is for the steam machine, not the headset. Mentioned in the CPU & GPU section.

So, in the specs for the mini-pc, it claims the video out can do 4K @ 120Hz (even faster if displayport). I assume the 4K @ 60Hz you saw is from the "4K gaming at 60 FPS with FSR" line.

I reckon it can probably stream at 4K@120 if it can game at half that.

Oh hell yes. There was a leak of specs (via a benchmarking database) of an upcoming machine from Valve and I had my fingers crossed that it was a mini PC and not some VR thingy, saw this thread, and was sad for a moment before I spotted this post.

6x as powerful as the Steam deck (that I use plugged in anyway 98% of the time—I’d have bought a Steam Deck 2, but I’m glad I get the option to put money toward more performance instead of battery and screen that I don’t use) is great. Not a lot of games I want to play won’t run well at least at 1080p with specs like that.

This is not true, from the specs:

HDMI 2.0

Up to 4K @ 120Hz

Supports HDR, FreeSync, and CEC

I have zero doubts the device can do 4k @ 120Hz streaming Hardware wise. In the end it is just a normal Linux desktop.

Interesting. I also saw HDMI 2.0 - I guess it’s technically possible but with subsampling?

A bit of topic, but I was wondering how much bigger is the steam machine compared to the mac mini m4, since that's what I have and is my frame of reference. Obviously comparing apples to oranges and only talking about physical volume, not features, compatibility, price, personal preferences, etc.

Mac Mini m4: 127 x 127 x 50 mm = 0.8 L

Steam Machine: 156 x 162 x 152 = 3.8 L

That's 4.76 times more volume.

> Obviously comparing apples to oranges

Or is it “comparing apples to steam engines”?

It's only a little bigger than Mac Studio.

9.5 x 19.7 x 19.7 cm = 3,687 cm³

and half the size of my SFFPC @ 8.3L

Snapdragon doesn't really have a good history of supporting proper desktop games. Windows for ARM had kinda bad compatibility. It seems the aim is to have most games just be playable like with the Deck. Fingers crossed but I have some reservations.

Considering how much they talk about Foveated rendering, I think it might not be constrained by the traditional limitations of screens - instead of sending a fixed resolution image at whatever frequency, it'll send a tiny but highly detailed image where your eyes are focusing, with the rest being considerably lower resolution.

Or that's what I think I may be completely wrong.

Their new mini PC isn’t ARM (the Frame is, though), it’s AMD hardware like the Steam Deck. Appears to be x86, should play basically anything in my library at 1080p or higher as long as it works under SteamOS.

it's confusing rn because on the steam machine post people are commenting on the frame and vice-versa here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45903404

It seems it supports DP 1.4 as well, so perhaps you could get an adapter if your display only supports HDMI 2.1

I know but the Frame supports regular x86 games as well in standalone mode.

you run FEX, not direct ARM games

That doesn't magically fix the Qualcomm GPU or the drivers.

I don’t think you will be on latest nightly. LTS are good and stable, if FEX is targeting those specs I don’t see a stability issue.

The GPU is fine and the drivers Valve are using, if their past hardware is any indication, will be open source. Doesn't magically fix them, but it does allow for Valve to fix them.

What is the draw of the Steam machine though? They say the price is comparable to similarly specced PC. So why not just buy/build any mini PC? There's plenty of options for that

A good while back I abandoned PC gaming because I was sick of driver issues, compatibility, and always having to update hardware to play the next game. Instead, I embraced consoles and haven't considered PC gaming since then. This, however, has me reconsidering that. I want it to "just work". When I want to play games, I don't want to deal with all of that other crap. I'm old, ain't nobody got time for that.

It's wild how experiences can vary so wildly. That's the nature of PC's though I suppose that you are trying to avoid.

I've had no driver or compatibility issues in longer than I can remember. Maybe Vista?

I also rarely upgrade because playing at console level settings means I can easily get effectively the same lifetime out of my hardware. Though I do tend to upgrade a little earlier than console users still leaning a bit more towards the enthusiast side.

Some people really don't want to spend time exchanging parts when the memory they buy turns out to be incompatible or that the GPU doesn't fit the sleek mITX case. There's a lot of research to ensure all parts are compatible and optimal when building a PC - for some it's time that could be better spent on using the PC instead of building one.

It's a console basically. It comes ready to play without much maintenance needed from the user.

Given that Valve are the ones who released the Orange Box, methinks the original comparison is valid

I guess you abandoned PC gaming some time in the early 2000s?

It's tiny. It runs SteamOS which is built to be used with a controller on a TV. And it will probably be a performance target for many developers.

But I think the biggest feature might be the quick suspend and resume. Every modern console has that, but not PCs. You can try to put a computer to sleep, but many games won't like that.

You can still buy prebuilt though and slap SteamOS on it and youre there.

Dont get me wrong this looks very a nice product, but its nothing revolutionary.

I mean I just don't see the difference between this and getting any PC and slapping SteamOS on it.

As someone who has been building my PCs for decades, I have to admit seeing some appeal here:

It's apparently small, quiet, capable, and easy.

If comparing this device to other pre-built systems, consider that this one is likely to be specifically supported by game developers, while others are not.

I'm unlikely to stop building my own, but most people don't, and the value of saved time and reduced hassle should not be underestimated.

I'm not sure that would work. From what I can tell, the adapters are basically dumb straight through cables, they aren't converting anything. And it's the actual GPU that's outputting a HDMI signal over the Displayport connector, which the adapter than rewires in to a HDMI shaped connector.

I love SFF PCs, but you can’t get the same density as a manufacturer doing a fully bespoke design. Just look at those innards: no space is wasted.