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574 points nh43215rgb | 1 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source
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hexbin010 ◴[] No.45781498[source]
> “ICE officials have told us that an apparent biometric match by Mobile Fortify is a ‘definitive’ determination of a person’s status and that an ICE officer may ignore evidence of American citizenship—including a birth certificate—if the app says the person is an alien,”

This is "computer says no (not a citizen)". Which is horrifying

They've just created an app to justify what they were already doing right? And the argument will be "well it's a super complex app run by a very clever company so it can't be wrong"?

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bko[dead post] ◴[] No.45782848[source]
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jmward01 ◴[] No.45783155[source]
I want the assumption of innocence until proven guilty. I want to not be searched against my will and with no probable cause. I want my accuser named and my suspected crimes announced in a way that gives me the opportunity to defend myself. Basically, this denies all of that.
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lisbbb[dead post] ◴[] No.45783615{3}[source]
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1. nobody9999 ◴[] No.45786991{4}[source]
>Does that relate to removing illegal immigrants? My understanding is that illegals have limited rights. Also, all the things you go on about mostly come later on, during arraignment and during trial. Arguing with cops on the sidewalk is mostly just going to get you jammed up even harder. Probable cause is something for your lawyer to argue about later.

Okay, I'm officially confused.

IIUC, the ICE announcement says that their facial "recognition" results trump actual documents.

And given that for some groups, state-of-the-art facial recognition algorithms have a 35% false positive rate, that means that for every 100 people snatched up by ICE (with your understanding that "illegals have limited rights.") 30 of them are not who they think they are and being generous, that 10-15% of those are also undocumented despite not being properly identified by the facial "recognition," 25 out of every 100 people in that group arrested will be legal residents or citizens.

And since ICE says that they can ignore actual documents in favor of their "app," those citizens and legal residents may well be deported (to god knows where if they're actually born here) without due process. As such, the whole "Probable cause is something for your lawyer to argue about later." bit may well be irrelevant given your statement about illegals having limited rights.

If ICE assumes incorrectly that you're undocumented, even if you and multiple generations of your ancestors are all born in the US and you can prove it. They explicitly said they will ignore that proof.

As such, based on what ICE claims, you're contradicting yourself. Either folks scooped up by ICE have -- because ICE says so -- "limited rights," and don't require traditional due process for detention and deportation, how does one then get access to a lawyer or court?

I expect you can see why I'm confused about your seemingly contradictory arguments.

I may very well be missing some important detail(s) here. If you could help me to understand what I'm not getting, I'd really appreciate it.