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625 points zdw | 37 comments | | HN request time: 0.55s | source | bottom
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ck2 ◴[] No.45397371[source]
fun-fact: CIA is currently mucking around in Greenland trying to get rid of people against annexation

this is not going to end well

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0j9l08902eo

https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/us-polit...

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1. danielscrubs ◴[] No.45397624[source]
Exactly my thoughts.

I think US ownership (not necessarily of land) is inevitable, but it is going to take a couple of decades of these kind of polarising pieces.

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2. tokai ◴[] No.45397757[source]
Why is that inevitable?
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3. impossiblefork ◴[] No.45397837[source]
>I think US ownership (not necessarily of land)

What would that even mean? Especially the use the word 'ownership'?

I think there's zero chance of US long-term influence on Greenland. They simply have no reason to prefer foreign domination, when they can simply be sovereign. I would place independence + EU membership as more probably than any association with the US, and I think them staying within Denmark is much more likely than them becoming independent.

replies(2): >>45398040 #>>45398805 #
4. sorokod ◴[] No.45397840[source]
inevitable... because of Manifest Destiny?

Like so (source Wikipedia)

"... there were three basic tenets behind the concept:

The assumption of the unique moral virtue of the United States.

The assertion of its mission to redeem the world by the spread of republican government and more generally the "American way of life".

The faith in the nation's divinely ordained destiny to succeed in this mission." ?

5. jacquesm ◴[] No.45397897[source]
I don't think that's any more inevitable than US ownership of Scotland or Finland.
6. threemux ◴[] No.45397967[source]
I think it even makes sense if it were pursued in a different way. Greenland is looking for full independence but can't really hack it financially without aid. I think the COFA (Compact of Free Association) model that we have with Palau and Marshall Islands would work well.

We get expanded military rights and potentially some mineral/drilling rights, while Greenland gets protection, lots of money, access to USPS domestic rates, and probably increased tourism in addition to the independence they desire. Their citizens could also live and work in the US indefinitely.

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7. tomrod ◴[] No.45398015[source]
Sounds like Danish former colonies aren't the only thing three letter agencies are bumbling around in.
8. WalterBright ◴[] No.45398040[source]
> They simply have no reason to prefer foreign domination

The reason is they require subsidy to live there. The economy appears to run at a net deficit. The same reason the Vikings gave up on it.

replies(1): >>45398280 #
9. impossiblefork ◴[] No.45398280{3}[source]
I don't think the subsidy is required. The net deficit is small.

Some Swedish regions also have a net deficit relative to other Swedish regions, but that doesn't mean that they don't work out economically. After all, not all economic activity in region is taxed there. A firm in Örnsköldsvik pays their taxes to the Swedish government, and then the Swedish government distributes part back to the region.

It's around 600 million USD per year, on 56836 people. Around $1000 per head. But GDP per capita is $58,498.

replies(2): >>45398535 #>>45398877 #
10. Hzwtdqwz1 ◴[] No.45398294[source]
I think the Danish intelligence services should apply this model to Hawaii and Guam. It would make a lot of sense. Hawaii and Guam could get better health care on average while being semi independent. The EU could protect both with nuclear weapons.

Native Hawaiians would escape the continued mistreatment:

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/culture/article/hawaii-no...

I think Radio Free Denmark should launch a soft power campaign.

replies(1): >>45398340 #
11. threemux ◴[] No.45398340{3}[source]
Lol I realize this is tongue in cheek but Denmark has no ability to administer or protect anything that far away. Nor are those places seeking independence.

But hey, maybe I'm wrong and the Danes will successfully integrate a large group of people that don't share their values. They've already done that, right?

replies(2): >>45398418 #>>45409099 #
12. jacquesm ◴[] No.45398418{4}[source]
> I realize this is tongue in cheek

That's your mistake.

13. epolanski ◴[] No.45398421[source]
What do you mean inevitable? The people there want nothing to do being somebody's colony.
14. epolanski ◴[] No.45398429[source]
> Their citizens could also live and work in the US indefinitely.

Not sure why Greenlanders would care at all.

They can already do the same in Denmark, which is a country with far better standards of living.

replies(1): >>45398482 #
15. pcrh ◴[] No.45398454[source]
US ownership would be pointless. The US already has relatively free access to its ally Greenland for military purposes. See for example the US base in Pituffik (formerly Thule). Proposing to annex your allies is a bit rude, to say the least...

If a country other than Denmark was to claim Greenland, either Iceland or Canada would make more sense.

replies(1): >>45398956 #
16. pcrh ◴[] No.45398464[source]
Greenland needs protection from whom? The only country threatening it is the US.
replies(1): >>45398512 #
17. threemux ◴[] No.45398482{3}[source]
Oh gimme a break. That's one of the largest benefits to COFA and is heavily used by the Marshallese. Greenland on its own is not a first world country - there simply isn't enough population/work and it's a hard existence as detailed in TFA.

You may not want to come here and that's fine, but it's a huge draw and will continue to be. Administrations are fleeting, but the allure of opportunity remains. You're posting on a forum that is somewhat of a monument to exactly that.

EDIT: some of this made a bit more sense prior to your hasty edit

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18. threemux ◴[] No.45398512{3}[source]
The Arctic will be the battleground and trade route of the future as it warms. Being associated with the US is preferable to the other options (Russia, China most likely). There won't be an option of the status quo.
replies(2): >>45398693 #>>45398732 #
19. Paradigm2020 ◴[] No.45398535{4}[source]
10k.
replies(1): >>45399015 #
20. ◴[] No.45398693{4}[source]
21. gpm ◴[] No.45398732{4}[source]
Greenland, as part of Denmark, is part of and protected by NATO. As its in the Atlantic it benefits fully from that treaty.

It is also protected by Denmark's membership in the EU and the CSDP by virtue of the EU's collective self defense clause (which protects all of all member states territory, not just the parts in europe).

The status quo - apart from the part where the US is threatening to violate its NATO treaty obligations and invade something it is obligated to protect from invasion - is just fine.

22. TMWNN ◴[] No.45398805[source]
>They simply have no reason to prefer foreign domination, when they can simply be sovereign.

No, they can't. The likes of Palau are (barely) viable as sovereign countries, because at least the geographic size is as small as their populations.

It is absolutely, positively, completely impossible for 50K Greenlanders to by themselves maintain a the world's largest island, even aside from the completely frozen-over aspect. The $600M annual subsidy by Denmark does not include the funds Copenhagen spends on also running Greenland's foreign relations and defense. But in reality, Denmark spends a relative pittance on those things (like "six dog sleds" pittance); the vast majority of the cost of defending Greenland is borne by the US, as has been the case since 1940. Why should the US shoulder the burden without commensurate political power?

replies(1): >>45401944 #
23. WalterBright ◴[] No.45398877{4}[source]
> I don't think the subsidy is required. The net deficit is small.

Continuing to lose money leads to bankruptcy.

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24. gpm ◴[] No.45398956[source]
As a Canadian I really can't imagine why we would be a better country for Greenland to be part of then Denmark. Unlike Denmark (and the other nordic countries) we don't have any historical connection to it... nor is it part of our landmass, or really anything else other than vaguely near by.

We're also really not interested in annexing random things.

replies(1): >>45400439 #
25. impossiblefork ◴[] No.45399015{5}[source]
Ah, you're right. So an order of magnitude higher. Miscalculated.
26. impossiblefork ◴[] No.45399026{5}[source]
They would presumably just cut their government budget if it weren't for the subsidy.

It would probably be fine. Furthermore, I don't think Denmark plans on dropping it. They want reasonably strong government services also in this sparsely populated arctic region.

27. pjc50 ◴[] No.45399079[source]
It's going to get forgotten instantly when Trump leaves office, either democratically or feet first.
28. jacquesm ◴[] No.45399333{4}[source]
Florida on its own is also not a first world country. This goes for many places and it isn't the flex you make it out to be, the fact that Greenland is part of Denmark which in turn in part of the EU and which the USA through NATO is bound by treaty to defend rather than that threaten to invade is a detail that may have escaped your attention but it matters rather a lot to the rest of the 'first world'.
replies(1): >>45400681 #
29. epolanski ◴[] No.45399468{4}[source]
Denmark is one of the countries with the highest standards of living by any metric possible, consistently ranking among the best countries to live in the world.

The US is not.

Sure, there's allure in going to US if you're from a poor country, or if you have an ambition your country cannot satisfy (some scientists and entrepreneurs will find America only in America, that's true).

Greenlanders are neither of those two categories.

If they don't care moving to Denmark or rest of Europe you can be sure they don't care coming to US either.

30. watwut ◴[] No.45399553[source]
The primary threat to Greenland is USA and USA is extremely unreliable country. USA can't sell protection. It may extort or invade or commit some kind of atrocity ... but is not capable of selling protection.

You are talking about getting a colony and stealing their resources.

31. pcrh ◴[] No.45400439{3}[source]
I meant that geopolitically Canada or Iceland would make more sense, assuming Denmark was out of the picture.

And also glad to hear that random annexations by Canada are currently off the menu. Though who knows if Canada might become "interested" in some bits of Oregon or Maine in the future ;-) These might might not be "really" American....

When American Idiocracy (AI) fatally weakens their southern neighbor would be the time for Canada to conquer their rightful claims. The Burning of Washington will rise again.

(just kidding, to be sure)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aroostook_War

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_boundary_dispute

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_of_Washington

replies(1): >>45401410 #
32. threemux ◴[] No.45400681{5}[source]
Florida on its own would absolutely be a first world country with a GDP comparable to Spain or South Korea. Pick a less prosperous state haha it has multiple cities with a greater population than the entire island of Greenland
replies(1): >>45400708 #
33. jacquesm ◴[] No.45400708{6}[source]
There is a lot more to being a first world country than you make it out to be. Florida only works because it is part of the USA, if it were not it would not manage.
34. BobbyTables2 ◴[] No.45401410{4}[source]
So “Canadian Bacon” really was prescient both ways!
35. danielscrubs ◴[] No.45401944{3}[source]
You don’t get to decide the price after the fact.

The petroldollar has been amazing for every citizen of US… somethings just give and take.

US can choose to jump out of Nato whenever it wishes.

The real danger here is that we might all be chatting against llm bots…

36. danielscrubs ◴[] No.45403993[source]
Scandinavians are known for being quite naïve and Americans are quite good at psyops (historically).

You might expect them to have christian values, but it would be a mistake…

37. LarsKrimi ◴[] No.45409099{4}[source]
> Lol I realize this is tongue in cheek but Denmark has no ability to administer or protect anything that far away

Does the US? They don't seem to have a great track record of that

I mean do you even remember Pearl Harbor?

/S :^)