U.S. hits new low in World Happiness Report

I believe that these self-reported surveys are partly testing the cultural acceptability of complaining—that is, the more unacceptable it is to complain, the happier one comes out in the scoring. How well that corresponds to 'actual' happiness is, of course, a different question.

I base this on experience with some of the 'happy' cultures on the list. However, I would be interested in knowing whether HN members from Finland, Denmark, Iceland, Sweden, and the Netherlands (to name the top 5) agree with this concept or not.

There are cultural differences, but once you have the baseline, I think the delta is more interesting, so how happiness has changed in a country throughout the years.

I guess a cultural willingness to complain could also have a feedback effect on the 'actual' happiness.

Exactly. This is like saying "the people aren't unhappy, they just think they are unhappy". Well if they think they are unhappy then they are unhappy.

Yes it has nothing to do with healthcare, education, work-life balance etc. Must be something else.

Plenty of eastern European countries on that list above US, so your theory has no real basis.

and commuting, not sure if nerd-snipping with Waymo is going to help here.

You buried your thesis statement.

"US is not actually unhappy. The survey is broken" or somesuch.

It is obvious to anybody who has ever been to the Nordic countries: They are far from being the happiest people in the world. A lot of them are very miserable, for reasons that I could never deduce.

How does nerd-sniping with Waymo work? Is it about nerd-sniping a person so they get hit by a Waymo, or is it about nerd-sniping the Waymo itself, distracting it before having a human hit it?

D'oh, I think I got nerd-sniped there for a second.

I'm Norwegian, and we're down to 7th place, but I've lived half my life in the UK, and I can tell you that Norwegians will complain just as much as people in the UK, if not far more whenever I visit family.

It's the national sport. In fact, if you tell most Norwegians about coming 7th on a World Happiness ranking, odds are high most of us will complain loudly about that too, thinking we deserve a higher spot, and that there's no ways the Finns and especially Swedes can be higher than us on the list (being beaten by the Danes is okay).

In other words, I don't think this matches cultural acceptability of complaining at all. Norwegians will express dissatisfaction loudly and about everything (don't get a Norwegian started on the quality of the roads, or taxes; at the same time, don't get a majority of Norwegians started on "American conditions" or the political parties that might bring them about by lowering taxes), while still generally living pretty great lives.

Half Dutch half American. I find the Dutch complain a decent bit more, but I find that there is more to complain about in the States. Maar wat is het leven zonder klagen?

One thing I've noticed being back recently: cost of living has gotten very unaffordable in Amsterdam the last time I was back. Cost of basic goods is on par with what I'm used to paying in major American cities, but my Dutch relatives often earn a decent bit less. I wonder if this will affect Dutch happiness in future surveys once affordability exceeds more and more people's earnings.

Is it? As someone from Norway, who has spent plenty of time in the other Nordic countries, I'd disagree strongly. We'll complain a lot. Until you ask us to actually rank how happy we are with our lives.

If you base you impression on what people are saying without explicitly asking how happy they are with their lives, then you're getting an impression that's biased by almost an eagerness to complain, despite at the end of the day generally being very satisfied.

You're disagreeing with yourself. Somebody who complains a lot and in other ways shows how miserable they are does not become happy by saying they are happy. You can maybe lie to yourself that you are happy, but you can't fool others. Although Norwegians and Danes are generally happier than Finns and Swedes.

This makes sense to me. Also, sometimes complaining isn't a sign of unhappiness - it's a sign one has standards and the self-esteem to stick up for them.

Wouldn't the cultural factor of complaining not mean as much since it's a survey for scientific purposes?

For example, it's considered weird to talk about how many times I went to the bathroom this week but if asked by a doctor I would be more willing to provide the information

No, I am not. Complaining does not require unhappiness at all. That there are lots of things I'd like to be better does not mean I'm not happy. That I enjoy complaining does not make me unhappy either - on the contrary, it makes me happier.

> You can maybe lie to yourself that you are happy

This is inherently paradoxical and hence nonsensical. If you successfully convince yourself that you are happy, you are happy.

> Although Norwegians and Danes are generally happier than Finns and Swedes.

That you think you know better than people themselves whether they are happy is just rude and insulting.

You are the person focusing on complaining specifically. I stated that the Nordics are far from being the happiest people in the world, and that is not by counting how much people complain.

> This is inherently paradoxical and hence nonsensical. If you successfully convince yourself that you are happy, you are happy.

If people are visibly unhappy but tell you that they are very happy, that doesn't mean that they've become happy by convincing themselves. That's like a guy screaming and punching you while he's saying that he's very calm. It's not reality, it's delusion.

When somebody successfully convinces themselves to be happy, they don't continue their lives showing all the behaviour and attitudes of an unhappy person. You can also outwardly tell that they are happy.

> That you think you know better than people themselves whether they are happy is just rude and insulting.

Oh, the insolence!

> You are the person focusing on complaining specifically. I stated that the Nordics are far from being the happiest people in the world, and that is not by counting how much people complain.

Explain to us in what way you have determined that you know better than people themselves how happy they are, then, please.

> When somebody successfully convinces themselves to be happy, they don't continue their lives showing all the behaviour and attitudes of an unhappy person. You can also outwardly tell that they are happy.

Given what you've written I have no reason to believe that you are capable of telling whether people are happy or not at all, as I simply don't believe you will pick out genuine markers of unhappiness from culturally or personality dependent traits that are not.

What do you benefit from resorting to personal attacks? That only limits your own reasoning.

Most times it is not very difficult to tell if a person is unhappy when you interact with them. Especially when they don't try to hide it. When your dog or cat is unhappy, you know it pretty easily. People are usually not much different.