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331 points giuliomagnifico | 58 comments | | HN request time: 1.201s | source | bottom
1. bigstrat2003 ◴[] No.45377613[source]
I remember at the time thinking it was really silly for Intel to release a 64-bit processor that broke compatibility, and was very glad AMD kept it. Years later I learned about kernel writing, and I now get why Intel tried to break with the old - the compatibility hacks piled up on x86 are truly awful. But ultimately, customers don't care about that, they just want their stuff to run.
replies(5): >>45377925 #>>45379301 #>>45380247 #>>45385323 #>>45386390 #
2. zokier ◴[] No.45377925[source]
It is worth noting that at the turn of the century x86 wasn't yet so utterly dominant yet. Alphas, PowerPC, MIPS, SPARC and whatnot were still very much a thing. So that is part why running x86 software was not as high priority, and maybe even compatibility with PA-RISC would have been a higher priority.
replies(3): >>45378981 #>>45379383 #>>45379735 #
3. tliltocatl ◴[] No.45378981[source]
Well, according to some IA-64 was a planned flop with the whole purpose of undermining HP's supercomputer division.
replies(1): >>45379454 #
4. wvenable ◴[] No.45379301[source]
Intel might have been successful with the transition if they didn't decide to go with such radically different and real-world untested architecture for Itanium.
replies(2): >>45379461 #>>45380469 #
5. Spooky23 ◴[] No.45379383[source]
The writing was on the wall once Linux was a thing. I did alot of solution design in that period. The only times there were good business cases in my world for not-x86 were scenarios where DBAs and some vertical software required Sun, and occasionally AIX or HPUX for license optimization or some weird mainframe finance scheme.

The cost structure was just bonkers. I replaced a big file server environment that was like $2M of Sun gear with like $600k of HP Proliant.

replies(2): >>45380533 #>>45384639 #
6. cogman10 ◴[] No.45379454{3}[source]
Nah, HP made bank on their superdome computers even though they had very few clients. People paid through the nose for those. I worked on IA-64 stuff in 2011, long after I thought it was dead :D.

The real thing that killed the division is Oracle announcing that they would no longer support IA-64. It just so happened that like 90% of the clients using Itanium were using it for oracle DBs.

But by that point HP was already trying to get people to transition to more traditional x86 servers that they were selling.

replies(1): >>45382393 #
7. pixl97 ◴[] No.45379461[source]
Well that and Itanium was eyewateringly expensive and standard PC was much cheaper for similar or faster speeds.
replies(1): >>45380251 #
8. unethical_ban ◴[] No.45379735[source]
Is that true in 2000, especially as consumer PCs ramped up?
9. drewg123 ◴[] No.45380247[source]
It didn't help that Itanium was late, slow, and Intel/HP marketing used Itanium to kill off the various RISC CPUs, each of which had very loyal fans. This pissed off a lot of techies at the time.

I was a HUGE DEC Alpha fanboy at the time (even helped port FreeBSD to DEC Alpha), so I hated Itanium with a passion. I'm sure people like me who were 64-bit MIPS and PA-RISC fanboys and fangrirls also existed, and also lobbied against adoption of itanic where they could.

I remember when amd64 appeared, and it just made so much sense.

replies(3): >>45380466 #>>45381576 #>>45381749 #
10. Tsiklon ◴[] No.45380251{3}[source]
I think Itanium was a remarkable success in some other ways. Intel utterly destroyed the workstation market with it. HP-UX, IRIX, AIX, Solaris.

Itanium sounded the deathknell for all of them.

The only Unix to survive with any market share is MacOS, (arguably because of its lateness to the party) and it has only relatively recently went back to a more bespoke architecture

replies(5): >>45380339 #>>45380406 #>>45382516 #>>45383193 #>>45388301 #
11. icedchai ◴[] No.45380339{4}[source]
I'd argue it was Linux (on x86) and the dot-com crash that destroyed the workstation market, not Itanium. The early 2000s was awash in used workstation gear, especially Sun. I've never seen anyone with an Itanium box.
replies(3): >>45380551 #>>45381130 #>>45387724 #
12. seabrookmx ◴[] No.45380406{4}[source]
HP-UX was one of the most popular operating systems to run on Itanium though?
replies(3): >>45380436 #>>45385510 #>>45386239 #
13. icedchai ◴[] No.45380436{5}[source]
HP was also one of the few companies to actually sell Itanium systems! They were also the last to stop selling them. They ported both OpenVMS and HP-UX to Itanium.
replies(2): >>45380569 #>>45382543 #
14. EasyMark ◴[] No.45380466[source]
This, if intel's compilers and architecture had been stellar and provided a x5 or x10 improvement it would have caught on. However no one in IT was fool enough to switch architectures over a 30-50% performance improvement that require switching hardware, compilers, and software and try to sell it to their bosses.
replies(2): >>45381389 #>>45381907 #
15. kronicum2025 ◴[] No.45380469[source]
And such a terrible architecture for the time.
16. michaelt ◴[] No.45380533{3}[source]
And by ~2000 there were also increasingly viable x86 offerings in CAD, 3D and video editing.

You had AutoCAD, you had 3D Studio Max, you had After Effects, you had Adobe Premiere. And it was solid stuff - maybe not best-in-class, but good enough, and the price was right.

17. tyingq ◴[] No.45380551{5}[source]
I think the idea there is that it's less direct. Intel's lack of interest in a 64-bit x86 spawned AMD x64. The failure of Itanium then let that Linux/AMD x64 kill off the workstation market, and the larger RISC/Unix market. Linux on 32 bit X86 or 64 bit RISC alone was making some headway there, but the Linux/x64 combo is what enabled the full kill off.
replies(1): >>45385498 #
18. tyingq ◴[] No.45380569{6}[source]
Well, largely because they made it difficult for customers to stay on PA-RISC, then later, because their competitors were dying off...and if you were in the market for stodgy RISC/Unix there weren't many other choices.
replies(1): >>45386277 #
19. phire ◴[] No.45381130{5}[source]
While Linux helped, I'd argue the true factor is that x86 failed to die as projected.

The common attitude in the 80s and 90s was that legacy ISAs like 68k and x86 had no future. They had zero chance to keep up with the innovation of modern RISC designs. But not only did x86 keep up, it was actually outperforming many RISC ISAs.

The true factor is out-of-order execution. Some RISC contemporary designs were out-of-order too (Especially Alpha, and PowerPC to a lesser extent), but both AMD and Intel were forced to go all-in on the concept in a desperate attempt to keep the legacy x86 ISA going.

Turns out large out-of-order designs was the correct path (mostly OoO has side effect of being able to reorder memory accesses and execute them in parallel), and AMD/Intel had a bit of a head start, a pre-existing customer base and plenty of revenue for R&D.

IMO, Itanium failed not because it was a bad design, but because it was on the wrong path. Itanium was an attempt to achieve roughly the same end goal as OoO, but with a completely in-order design, relying on static scheduling. It had massive amounts of complexity that let it re-order memory reads. In an alternative universe where OoO (aka dynamic scheduling) failed, Itanium might actually be a good design.

Anyway, by the early 2000s, there just wasn't much advantage to a RISC workstation (or RISC servers). x86 could keep up, was continuing to get faster and often cheaper. And there were massive advantages to having the same ISA across your servers, workstations and desktops.

replies(2): >>45381317 #>>45382983 #
20. chasil ◴[] No.45381317{6}[source]
Bob Colwell mentions originally doing out of order design at Multiflow.

He was a key player in the Pentium Pro out of order implementation.

https://www.sigmicro.org/media/oralhistories/colwell.pdf

"We should also say that the 360/91 from IBM in the 1960s was also out of order, it was the first one and it was not academic, that was a real machine. Incidentally that is one of the reasons that we picked certain terms that we used for the insides of the P6, like the reservation station that came straight out of the 360/91."

Here is his Itanium commentary:

"Anyway this chip architect guy is standing up in front of this group promising the moon and stars. And I finally put my hand up and said I just could not see how you're proposing to get to those kind of performance levels. And he said well we've got a simulation, and I thought Ah, ok. That shut me up for a little bit, but then something occurred to me and I interrupted him again. I said, wait I am sorry to derail this meeting. But how would you use a simulator if you don't have a compiler? He said, well that's true we don't have a compiler yet, so I hand assembled my simulations. I asked "How did you do thousands of line of code that way?" He said “No, I did 30 lines of code”. Flabbergasted, I said, "You're predicting the entire future of this architecture on 30 lines of hand generated code?" [chuckle], I said it just like that, I did not mean to be insulting but I was just thunderstruck. Andy Grove piped up and said "we are not here right now to reconsider the future of this effort, so let’s move on"."

replies(1): >>45382544 #
21. axiolite ◴[] No.45381389{3}[source]
> if intel's compilers and architecture had been stellar and provided a x5 or x10 improvement it would have caught on.

That sounds like DEC Alpha to me, yet Alpha didn't take over the world. "Proprietary architecture" is a bad word, not something you want to base your future on. Without the Intel/AMD competition, x86 wouldn't have dominated for all these years.

replies(1): >>45388196 #
22. antod ◴[] No.45381576[source]
Wasn't much of the Athlon designed by laid-off DEC Alpha engineers that AMD snapped up? Makes sense that AMD64 makes sense to an Alpha fanboy :)
replies(1): >>45381795 #
23. kjs3 ◴[] No.45381749[source]
PA-RISC fanboys and fangrirls

Itanic wasn't exactly HP-PA v.3, but it was a kissing cousin. Most of the HP shops I worked with believed the rhetoric it was going to be a straightforward if not completely painless upgrade from the PA-8x00 gear they were currently using.

Not so much.

The MIPS 10k line on the other hand...sigh...what might have been.

I remember when amd64 appeared, and it just made so much sense.

And you were right.

replies(2): >>45382385 #>>45385448 #
24. kjs3 ◴[] No.45381795{3}[source]
Yeah...look up Jim Keller. And AMD basically recycled the later Alpha system bus as the K7 bus to the extent there was very short lived buzz about having machines that could be either x86-64 or Alpha.
25. kjs3 ◴[] No.45381907{3}[source]
I dunno if you meant it this way, but I've heard waaaay too many people say things like this meaning "if Intel compiler guys didn't suck...". They didn't, and don't (Intel C and Fortran compilers are to this day excellent). The simple fact is noone has proven yet that anyone can write compilers good enough to give VLIW overwhelmingly compelling performance outside of niche uses (DSPs, for example). I remember the Multiflow and Cydrome guys giving the same "it's the compiler, stupid" spiel in the mid-80s, and the story hasn't changed much except the details. We bought a Multiflow Trace...it was really nice, for certain problems, but not order-of-magnatude-faster, change-the-world nice, which was how it was sold.

Now, to be clear, a lot of these folks and their ideas moved the state-of-the-art in compilers massively ahead, and are a big reason compilers are so good now. Really, really smart people worked this problem.

replies(2): >>45385436 #>>45388333 #
26. hawflakes ◴[] No.45382385{3}[source]
Did the PA-RISC shops run their old PA-RISC code with the Aries emulator?

One of the selling points for HP users was running old code via dynamic translation and x86 would just work on the hardware directly.

Another fun fact I remember from working at HP was that later PA-RISC chips were fabbed at Intel because the HP-Intel agreement had Intel fabbing a certain amount of chips and since Merced was running behind... Intel-fabbed PA-RISC chips!

https://community.hpe.com/t5/operating-system-hp-ux/parisc-p...

replies(1): >>45425900 #
27. hawflakes ◴[] No.45382393{4}[source]
The hardware folks at HP were big into the outdoors. The story went that it was named Halfdome but customers outside the US who weren't familiar with Yosemite would ask where the other half was.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half_Dome

28. cryptonector ◴[] No.45382516{4}[source]
Absolutely not. Sun destroyed itself and Solaris, not Intel. The others were even more also-rans than Solaris.
replies(1): >>45387199 #
29. sillywalk ◴[] No.45382543{6}[source]
HP also ported NonStop to Itanium.
30. phire ◴[] No.45382544{7}[source]
> Bob Colwell mentions originally doing out of order design at Multiflow.

Actually no, it was Metaflow [0] who was doing out-of-order. To quote Colwell:

"I think he lacked faith that the three of us could pull this off. So he contacted a group called Metaflow. Not to be confused with Multiflow, no connection."

"Metaflow was a San Diego group startup. They were trying to design an out of order microarchitecture for chips. Fred thought what the heck, we can just license theirs and remove lot of risk from our project. But we looked at them, we talked to their guys, we used their simulator for a while, but eventually we became convinced that there were some fundamental design decisions that Metaflow had made that we thought would ultimately limit what we could do with Intel silicon."

Multiflow, [1] where Colwell worked, has nothing to do with OoO, its design is actually way closer to Itanium. So close, in-fact that the Itanium project is arguably a direct decedent of Multiflow (HP licensed the technology, and hired Multiflow's founder, Josh Fisher). Colwell claims that Itainum's compiler is nothing more than the Multiflow compiler with large chunks rewritten for better performance.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metaflow_Technologies

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiflow

replies(1): >>45382718 #
31. chasil ◴[] No.45382718{8}[source]
I thoroughly acknowledge and enjoy your clarification.
32. stevefan1999 ◴[] No.45382983{6}[source]
> The true factor is out-of-order execution.

I'm pressing X: the doubt button.

I would argue that speculative execution/branch prediction and wider pipeline, both of which that OoO largely benefitted from, would be more than OoO themselves to be the sole factor. In fact I believe the improvement in semiconductor manufacturing process node could contribute more to the IPC gain than OoO itself.

replies(1): >>45383517 #
33. inkyoto ◴[] No.45383193{4}[source]
Looking back, I think we can now conclude that it was largely inevitable for the other designs to fade sooner or later – and that is what has happened.

The late 90's to the early aughts' race for highest-frequency, highest-performance CPUs exposed not a need for a CPU-only, highly specialised foundry, but a need for sustained access to the very front of process technology – continuous, multibillion-dollar investment and a steep learning curve. Pure-play foundries such as TSMC could justify that spend by aggregating huge, diverse demand across CPU's, GPU's and SoC's, whilst only a handful of integrated device manufacturers could fund it internally at scale.

The major RISC houses – DEC, MIPS, Sun, HP and IBM – had excellent designs, yet as they pushed performance they repeatedly ran into process-cadence and capital-intensity limits. Some owned fabs but struggled to keep them competitive; others outsourced and were constrained by partners’ roadmaps. One can trace the pattern in the moves of the era: DEC selling its fab, Sun relying on partners such as TI and later TSMC, HP shifting PA-RISC to external processes, and IBM standing out as an exception for a time before ultimately stepping away from leading-edge manufacturing as well.

A compounding factor was corporate portfolio focus. Conglomerates such as Motorola, TI and NEC ran diversified businesses and prioritised the segments where their fab economics worked best – often defence, embedded processors and DSP's – rather than pouring ever greater sums into low-volume, general-purpose RISC CPU's. IBM continued to innovate and POWER endured, but industry consolidation steadily reduced the number of independent RISC CPU houses.

In the end, x86 benefited from an integrated device manufacturer (i.e. Intel) with massive volume and a durable process lead, which set the cadence for the rest of the field. The outcome was less about the superiority of a CPU-only foundry and more about scale – continuous access to the leading node, paid for by either gigantic internal volume or a foundry model that spread the cost across many advanced products.

replies(1): >>45384184 #
34. phire ◴[] No.45383517{7}[source]
To be clear, when I (and most people) say OoO, I don't mean just the act of executing instructions out-of-order. I mean the whole modern paradigm of "complex branch predictors, controlling wide front-ends, feeding schedulers with wide back-ends and hundreds or even thousands of instructions in flight".

It's a little annoying that OoO is overloaded in this way. I have seen some people suggesting we should be calling these designs "Massively-Out-of-Order" or "Great-Big-Out-of-Order" in order to be more specific, but that terminology isn't in common use.

And yes, there are some designs out there which are technically out-of-order, but don't count as MOoO/GBOoO. The early PowerPC cores come to mind.

It's not that executing instructions out-of-order benefits from complex branch prediction and wide execution units, OoO is what made it viable to start using wide execution units and complex branch prediction in the first place.

A simple in-order core simply can't extract that much parallelism, the benefits drop off quickly after two-wide super scalar. And accurate branch prediction is of limited usefulness when the pipeline is that short.

There are really only two ways to extract more parallelism. You either do complex out-of-order scheduling (aka dynamic scheduling), or you take the VLIW approach and try to solve it with static scheduling, like the Itanium. They really are just two sides of the same "I want a wide core" coin.

And we all know how badly the Itanium failed.

replies(1): >>45383734 #
35. stevefan1999 ◴[] No.45383734{8}[source]
> I mean the whole modern paradigm of "complex branch predictors, controlling wide front-ends, feeding schedulers with wide back-ends and hundreds or even thousands of instructions in flight".

Ah, the philosophy of having the CPU execution out of ordered, you mean.

> A simple in-order core simply can't extract that much parallelism

While yes, it is also noticable that it does not have data hazard because a pipeline simply doesn't exist at all, and thus there is no need for implicit pipeline bubble or delay slot.

> And accurate branch prediction is of limited usefulness when the pipeline is that short.

You can also use a software virtual machine to turn an out-of-order CPU into basically running in-order code and you can see how slow that goes. That's why JIT VM such as HotSpot and GraalVM for JVM platform, RyuJIT for CoreCLR, and TurboFan for V8 is so much faster, because when you compile them to native instruction, the branch predictor could finally kick in.

> like the Itanium > And we all know how badly the Itanium failed.

Itanium is not exactly VLIW. It is an EPIC [^1] fail though.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explicitly_parallel_instructio...

36. jabl ◴[] No.45384184{5}[source]
Yes. AFAIU the cost of process R&D and building and running leading-edge fabs massively outweigh the cost of CPU architecture R&D. It's just a world of its own largely out the comfort zone of software people, hence we endlessly debate the merits of this or that ISA, or this or that microarchitecture, a bit like the drunkard searching for his keys under the streetlamp.

It's also interesting to note that back then the consensus was that you needed your own in-house fab with tight integration between the fab and CPU design teams to build the highest performance CPU's. Merchant fabs were seen as second-best options for those who didn't need the highest performance or couldn't afford their own in-house fab. Only later did the meteoric rise of TSMC to the top spot on the semiconductor food chain upend that notion.

37. rollcat ◴[] No.45384639{3}[source]
> The writing was on the wall once Linux was a thing.

Linux didn't "win" nearly as much as x86 did by becoming "good enough" - Linux just happened to be around to capitalize on that victory.

The writing on the wall was the decreasing prices and increasing capability of consumer-grade hardware. Then real game-changer followed: horizontal scalability.

38. irusensei ◴[] No.45385323[source]
I heard AMD64 uses some DEC Alpha tricks. Guess DEC engineers did had a last laugh against intel in the end.
39. p_l ◴[] No.45385436{4}[source]
My understanding is that Itanium was also stupidly strict on VLIW, making compilers even harder. Microsoft blogs had examples of some really funky bugs caused by it, too.

In comparison, Multiflow was not so bad.

40. p_l ◴[] No.45385448{3}[source]
First generations of Itanium used same bus and support chips as last HP-PA, thus way simpler migration path involved - some servers even allowed to swap HP-PA for Itanium without replacing most of the server (similar as with rare VAX 7000 and VAX 10000, which could have CPU boards replaced with Alpha ones)
replies(1): >>45426176 #
41. p_l ◴[] No.45385498{6}[source]
Intel's lack of interest in delivering 64bit for "peons" running x86 also was part - I remember when first discussion in popular computer magazines showed of amd64, that intel's proposed timeline was discussed, and it very much indicated a wish to push for "buy our super expensive stuff" and trying to squeeze money.

Meanwhile the decision to keep Itanium on expensive but lower-volume market meant that there simply wasn't much market growth, especially once non-technical part of killing other RISCs failed. Ultimately Itanium was left as recommended way in some markets to run Oracle databases (due to partnership between Oracle and HP) and not much else, while shops that used other RISC platforms either migrated to AMD64, or moved to other RISC platforms (even forcing HP to resurrect Alpha for last one gen)

42. p_l ◴[] No.45385510{5}[source]
Oracle sales would push you towards HP-UX on Itanium as recommended platform.

To the point that once that ended with Oracle's purchase of Sun, there was a lawsuit between Oracle and HP. And a lot of angry customers as HP-UX was pushed to the last moment of acquisition announcement.

43. bluedino ◴[] No.45386239{5}[source]
That's what we ran. Core system was written on PICK Basic in the 80's and it just kept going on and on. I was buying HP Integrity (Itanium line) spare parts on eBay up until about 10 years ago.
44. icedchai ◴[] No.45386277{7}[source]
As for RISC/Unix, in the enterprise, IBM's POWER/AIX is still around. I know some die hard IBM shops still using it.

I guess Oracle / Sun sparc is also still hanging on. I haven't seen a Sun shop since the early 2000's...

replies(1): >>45388756 #
45. Romario77 ◴[] No.45386390[source]
It wasn't just incompatibility, it was some of the design decisions that made it very hard to make performant code that runs well on Itanium.

Intel made a bet on parallel processing and compilers figuring out how to organize instructions instead of doing this in silicone. It proved to be very hard to do, so the supposedly next gen processors turned out to be more expensive and slower than the last gen or new AMD ones.

replies(1): >>45388162 #
46. icedchai ◴[] No.45387199{5}[source]
If Sun had been more liberal with Solaris licensing on x86 in the early years (before, say, 2000), we might all be running Solaris servers today. Sun / Solaris was the Unix for most of the 90's through the dot-com crash.

Almost all early startups I worked with were Sun / Solaris shops. All the early ISPs I worked with had Sun boxes for their customer shell accounts and web hosts. They put the "dot in dot-com", after all...

47. kjs3 ◴[] No.45387724{5}[source]
Yup. I had a front row seat. So many discussion with startups in the 2Ks that boiled down to "we can get a Sun/HP/DEC machine, or we can get 4-5 nice Wintel boxes running Linux for the same price". So at the point where everyone figured out Linux was a 'good enough' Unix for dev work and porting to the incumbents was a reasonable prospect, it was "so do we all want to share one machine or go find 500% more funding just to have the marquis brand". Once you made that leap, "we don't need the incumbents" because inevitable.
replies(1): >>45388673 #
48. cameldrv ◴[] No.45388162[source]
Yeah the biggest idea was essentially to do the scheduling of instructions upfront in the compiler instead of dynamically at runtime. By doing this, you can save a ton of die area for control and put it into functional units doing math etc.

The problem as far as I can tell as a layman is that the compiler simply doesn't have enough information to do this job at compile time. The timing of the CPU is not deterministic in the real world because caches can miss unpredictably, even depending on what other processes are running at the same time on the computer. Branches also can be different depending on the data being processed. Branch predictors and prefetchers can optimize this at runtime using the actual statistics of what's happening in that particular execution of the program. Better compilers can do profile directed optimization, but it's still going to be optimized for the particular situation the CPU was in during the profile run(s).

If you think of a program like an interpreter running a tight loop in an interpreted program, a good branch predictor and prefetcher are probably going to be able to predict fairly well, but a statically scheduled CPU is in trouble because at the compile time of the interpreter, the compiler has no idea what program the interpreter is going to be running.

49. cameldrv ◴[] No.45388196{4}[source]
The DEC Alpha actually did provide very good performance, and you could even run Windows NT on it. As far as I can tell, the biggest problem was just that Alpha systems were very expensive, and so they had a limited customer base. There were some quirks, but the main thing was just that you'd be paying $2000 for a PC and $10,000 for an Alpha based system, and most people didn't need the performance that badly.
replies(1): >>45398448 #
50. cameldrv ◴[] No.45388301{4}[source]
If you're counting all desktop/server computers, Linux has way more market share than all of the Unices ever did. It's probably even true for desktop Linux. If you count mobile phones, Android is a Linux derivative, and iOS is a BSD derivative. The fundamental issue for the workstation vendors was simply that with the P6, Intel was near parity or even ahead of the workstation vendors in performance, and it cost something like 1/4 as much.
51. acdha ◴[] No.45388333{4}[source]
I think Itanium would have had a better chance if Intel had made their compilers and optimized libraries free, but your larger point is really important: Intel’s performance numbers for the Itanium seem to have been broadly extrapolated from a few very FPU-intensive benchmarks and I don’t think it was ever realistic to expect anything like that level of performance for branchy business logic or to decisively change the price-performance ratio to become compelling. I worked with some scientists who did have a ton of floating point-heavy code, so they were definitely interested but their code also had a lot of non-linear memory access and the Itanium never managed a performance lead at all, much less one big enough that it wouldn’t have been cheaper and faster to buy 2-4 other servers for each Itanium box. In contrast, when AMD released the Opteron it decisively took the lead in absolute performance as well as price/performance and so we bought them by the rack.
52. icedchai ◴[] No.45388673{6}[source]
It was amazing how fast that happened. I remember one startup mainly supported Sun, late 90's, early 2000's. This was for a so called "enterprise" app that would run on-prem. They wanted me to move the app to Linux (Red Hat, I think?) so they could take it to a trade show booth without reliable Internet access. It was a pretty simple port.
53. kjs3 ◴[] No.45388756{8}[source]
There's still a lot of AIX around and the LoB is seeing revenue growth. You just don't hear about it on HN because it's mostly doing mundane, mission critical stuff buried in large orgs.

I still run into a number of Solaris/SPARC shops, but even the most die hard of them are actively looking for the off-ramp. The writing is on that wall.

replies(1): >>45388855 #
54. icedchai ◴[] No.45388855{9}[source]
I believe it! For a few years, I worked on fairly large system deployed to an AIX environment. The hardware and software were both rock solid. While I haven't used it, the performance of the newer POWER stuff looks incredible.
55. axiolite ◴[] No.45398448{5}[source]
> Alpha systems were very expensive, and so they had a limited customer base.

That's the usual chicken & egg problem... If they sold more units, the prices would have come down. But people weren't buying many, because the prices were high.

Itanium, like Alpha, or any other alternative architecture, would also have trouble and get stuck in that circle. x86-64, being a very inexpensive add-on to x86, managed to avoid that.

56. kjs3 ◴[] No.45425900{4}[source]
I didn't personally know of anyone using Aries in anger (production), but it looked like a neat trick.
57. kjs3 ◴[] No.45426176{4}[source]
Yes, that was an interesting option, though not nearly as cheap on a lifecycle basis as one might hope. I don't know of anyone who upgraded this way, but obviously someone did. My clients who converted ran the HP-PA machines, brought in Itaniums, migrated and retired the HP-PA when they were amortized (or kept running code that didn't get the merced treatment).
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58. p_l ◴[] No.45435760{5}[source]
I think HPPA->Itanium replacement without replacing the entire server was limited to Superdomes.

But it made it cheaper for HP to produce Itanium servers, though I bet they didn't pass those savings...