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Universities should be more than toll gates

(www.waliddib.com)
140 points wdib | 7 comments | 21 Sep 25 07:19 UTC | HN request time: 0.001s | source | bottom
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arn3n ◴[21 Sep 25 14:12 UTC] No.45322914[source]▶
I am always astonished by the range of people who claim their college degree was useless, citing rote memorization and bad classes. I had an entirely different experience and so did most people I know. University gave me the opportunity to talk to world-class researchers during office hours, to discuss ideas with my peers and have them either validated or critiqued by experts. Sure, all the information is available online (which is a miracle into itself) but without frequent contact with professors and mentors I wouldn’t have even known where to look or what existed in the field. University, for me, was a place where I was apprenticing full-time under highly experienced people, surrounded by people my age who also were doing the same. Years of self-teaching didn’t get me anywhere close to what a few semesters of expert mentorship got me. I never felt I had to memorize anything: exams consisted of system design or long programming projects or optimization challenges. I loved it, and I’m not sure if people went to different universities or just didn’t take advantage of the opportunities presented to them.
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1. eitally ◴[21 Sep 25 14:32 UTC] No.45323078[source]▶
> or just didn’t take advantage of the opportunities presented to them.

It's this. Most undergraduate students do not go to office hours, try to get to know their instructors, ask follow-up questions, pursue independent research, or do anything approaching "apprenticeship". Most American students matriculate into college/uni not even having ingrained behaviors that make any of these things obvious or approachable, so yes, it's understandable why many would consider higher ed the same as secondary ed: rote memorization and "bad" classes.

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2. jagged-chisel ◴[21 Sep 25 15:06 UTC] No.45323398[source]▶
> … Most undergraduate students do not go to office hours, try to get to know their instructors, ask follow-up questions

This was actively discouraged by the instructors in the school I attended. Not by policy, but by behavior - passive-aggressively belittling students for not “getting” the subject matter, showing a complete lack of interest in reciprocating any amount of getting to know the instructor.

> … ask follow-up questions, pursue independent research, or do anything approaching "apprenticeship". Most American students matriculate into college/uni not even having ingrained behaviors that make any of these things obvious or approachable …

A failure of secondary education and students’ families.

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3. xhkkffbf ◴[21 Sep 25 15:16 UTC] No.45323508[source]▶
I was talking with a professor yesterday who claimed his students don't ask questions any more on Piazza. They used to, but now they go to ChatGPT which is always perky and ready to answer. Plus, there's no shame in asking a dumb question as there can be in class or on Piazza.

He says it's only a matter of time before the students realize they don't need him. Or need to pay tuition.

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4. ioteg ◴[21 Sep 25 15:46 UTC] No.45323756{3}[source]▶
Most people don’t go to the university to learn, they go to get a diploma. If you don’t pay tuition they will not give you a diploma.
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5. jagged-chisel ◴[21 Sep 25 16:13 UTC] No.45323985{4}[source]▶
And we’ve all been sold a bill of goods on the necessity of diplomas and degrees. Because businesses have been sold a bill of goods on the quality of employees with diplomas and degrees.

Within at least the last 15 years, the paper provided by a school is no guarantee of better pay - but that’s how high schoolers are convinced to go into excessive debt for attending post-secondary schools.

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6. tayo42 ◴[21 Sep 25 16:14 UTC] No.45323993{3}[source]▶
We're already there with the "do my own research" crowd.

Im not a huge defender of college and lean towards it being mostly a waste, but the other extreme is problematic.

7. mcherm ◴[21 Sep 25 16:34 UTC] No.45324234{5}[source]▶
> the paper provided by a school is no guarantee of better pay

Perhaps not, but the lack of that paper IS a guarantee of worse pay.