Germany is not supporting ChatControl – blocking minority secured

Proud to be a German today, for sure :)

Yay for Dobrindt and vdL losing this fight :)

She is not called Zensursula without a reason.

I think the front lines are not that clear. Zensursula was actually a termed coined because she wanted the German equivalent of the online safety act in Germany back in the days. The 'Stasi 2.0' initiative (data retention at ISPs and online 'raids') was backed by some people in CDU and SPD (current ruling coalition). IMHO online safety (censorship) and chat control (privacy invasion) are different beasts, with different lobby groups as well.

ok buddy, you can be both proud of something and critical of other stuff without mentioning it in every sentence.

You don't have to be condescending, even if you disagree or think the situation is more nuanced. I think it's important that we're able to disagree in a polite manner.

I mainly remember the Zensursula title in connection with the ISP-level DNS-blocking initiative (the Stopsign thing) which was to combat CSAM.

I remember all the nerds going "That's a slippery slope to blocking other stuff as well though", and being dismissed. Now we got the CUII blocking libgen, scihub, piracy sites and as I recently read on HN, russia today(that's not the cuii I'm pretty sure, but same mechanism).

Well, it's also not very polite to hijack every fucking debate with the Palestine issue. Absolutely not relevant here.

You are right, I had to look it up again : Zugangserschwerungsgesetz [0] But the law did not feature any kind of data collection afaik.

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zugangserschwerungsgesetz

Edit: I think I mixed it up with her game censorship [1] (which I guess also contributed to her nick name).

[1] https://www.sueddeutsche.de/wirtschaft/von-der-leyen-sofortp...

Do they "hijack" every debate, though? I understand that highlighting genocide support makes people uncomfortable, but it doesn't mean that it's not allowed to be mentioned. I don't think the original comment was totally off-topic.

In my opinion it is relevant to "being proud" of the German state, which I'm personally unable to do because of the genocide support. I stated nothing more.

Why are you so upset about this?

You cannot mention genocide and not drown every other topic. It's naturally grim shit. Here it's drowning someone else's moment of joy. A fight won for democracy and freedom. TODAY, this person was proud of their country. It's already implied, this isn't every day.

The genocide happening is a terrible thing, but for most people here there is nothing actionable about it beyond voting and protesting. It's an important issue, but there is no reason for it to be the only issue on people's mind at all times. People dying in Palestine does not mean, people with no stakes or say in the matter need to be constantly consumed by its horror. There are many similar conflicts going right now, btw.

Climate change, social justice, digital freedom, queer liberation, ... it's all getting overshadowed by the Palestine issue. If you care about anything, someone wants you to care about Palestine in that moment. And quite frankly, a lot of these advocates are not even informed beyond their Instagram information warfare bubble.

This habit of injecting the topic into other political movements, effectively kills those other movements.

If you'd join any Palestine protest community you'd see that's not true.

Mobilisation for every issue is increasing everywhere, and there is strong solidarity across movements. Because the genocide support is radicalising an entire generation who then join the other movements as well.

I'm very interested to hear if you have personal experience to the contrary. However if you are not involved in anything, then you have no right to criticise those who are.

I also want to note that the genocide is only possible because of our silence on the matter.

> I'm very interested to hear if you have personal experience to the contrary. However if you are not involved in anything, then you have no right to criticise those who are.

I do. Am I allowed to speak now? There is no wide solidarity in both directions. If the Palestine block joins a queer demonstration and uses dog-whistles like paraglider symbolism in their communication, the messaging surely isn't solidarity with queer people. And soon thereafter, all you will see is Palestine flags, hear "Palestine 43" until the demonstration gets dissolved because someone says something wildly antisemitic, gets removed by the police, which causes riot. But hey, queer life got no reason to have their voices heard these days. Somebody may get a whole lot less free, until everyone is free, I guess.

But in any case, how fucking dare you, I have every right to criticize whatever I want. You don't know anything about the person you casually guilt-tripped above, maybe you should take that into consideration when talking speech rules.

Where and when did this happen?

Yes sorry a correction: you can criticise of course, but it carries no weight unless you are doing something too and have strategic advice to share.

Arguing online accomplishes nothing, but taking to the streets (even if non-optimally) just might.

Also, if you mean that protests get surpressed by police because the Palestine issue gets raised there, please direct your anger at the state not fellow activists. This is how they divide us.

So, what level of evidence would it take, to change your mind? You see, I won't spend any more time on this, if you are going to deflect any evidence provided. There is public record for the things I stated above. Would this make you concede here? Failure to bring forth an argument after provided with evidence, eg. not replying at all, will be considered concession.

Oh, and the scope is the genocide happening right now, not the fight for "Palestinian liberation", if this includes the dissolution of the state of Israel. "Palestine 43" and similar doesn't fly in Germany. And any celebration of the October attacks, in particular the festival massacre is considered antisemitic and glorification of illegitimate violence in nature. The paraglider is a symbol of this attack. Deal?

Well, I've been there. I've seen/heard why someone would have been detained. Although, of course, it didn't happen right next to me, but there were plenty of slogans and shouts completely unrelated to the current genocide, calling for the dissolution of the state of Israel.

See, I don't want to justify the police action. They are assholes. But, for "solidarity" with queer causes, I'd expect people maybe not to push every button, so they can paint themselves as the suppressed of the suppressed, effectively making queer voices unheard.