←back to thread

989 points acomjean | 4 comments | | HN request time: 1.008s | source
Show context
aeon_ai ◴[] No.45143392[source]
To be very clear on this point - this is not related to model training.

It’s important in the fair use assessment to understand that the training itself is fair use, but the pirating of the books is the issue at hand here, and is what Anthropic “whoopsied” into in acquiring the training data.

Buying used copies of books, scanning them, and training on it is fine.

Rainbows End was prescient in many ways.

replies(36): >>45143460 #>>45143461 #>>45143507 #>>45143513 #>>45143567 #>>45143731 #>>45143840 #>>45143861 #>>45144037 #>>45144244 #>>45144321 #>>45144837 #>>45144843 #>>45144845 #>>45144903 #>>45144951 #>>45145884 #>>45145907 #>>45146038 #>>45146135 #>>45146167 #>>45146218 #>>45146268 #>>45146425 #>>45146773 #>>45146935 #>>45147139 #>>45147257 #>>45147558 #>>45147682 #>>45148227 #>>45150324 #>>45150567 #>>45151562 #>>45151934 #>>45153210 #
wmf ◴[] No.45143840[source]
Paying $3,000 for pirating a ~$30 book seems disproportionate.
replies(9): >>45143932 #>>45143937 #>>45143970 #>>45144042 #>>45144165 #>>45144224 #>>45144519 #>>45144892 #>>45145679 #
vineyardmike ◴[] No.45143970[source]
I feel like proportionality is related also to the scale. If a student pirates a textbook, I’d agree that 100x is excessive, but this is a corporation handsomely profiting off of mass piracy.

It’s crazy to imagine, but there was surely a document or slack message thread discussing where to get thousands of books, and they just decided to pirate them and that was OK. This was entirely a decision based on ease or cost, not based on the assumption it was legal. Piracy can result in jail time IIRC, so honestly it’s lucky the employee who suggested this, or took the action avoided direct legal liability.

Oh and I’m pretty sure other companies (meta) are in litigation over this issue, and the publishers knew that settlement below the full legal limit would limit future revenue.

replies(2): >>45144181 #>>45145566 #
1. imron ◴[] No.45144181[source]
> handsomely profiting

Well actively generating revenue at least.

Profits are still hard to come by.

replies(1): >>45144460 #
2. griffzhowl ◴[] No.45144460[source]
Operating profits certainly but if you include investments the big players are raking it in aren't they?
replies(1): >>45145556 #
3. __loam ◴[] No.45145556[source]
Investment is debt lol. Maybe you can make the argument that you're increasing the equity value but you do have to eventually prove you're able to make money right? Maybe you don't, this system is pretty messed up after all.
replies(1): >>45148085 #
4. griffzhowl ◴[] No.45148085{3}[source]
As long as you have more money coming in than your costs, then it's technically a profit even if that money comes from investments.

It's not the same as debt from a loan, because people are buying a percentage stake in the company. If the value of the company happens to go to zero there's nothing left to pay.

But yeah, the amount of investment a company attracts should have something to do with the perception that it'll operate at a profit at some point