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    1101 points codesmash | 11 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source | bottom
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    t43562 ◴[] No.45137756[source]
    To provide 1 contrary opinion to all the others saying they have a problem:

    Podman rocks for me!

    I find docker hard to use and full of pitfalls and podman isn't any worse. On the plus side, any company I work for doesn't have to worry about licences. Win win!

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    nickjj ◴[] No.45137925[source]
    > On the plus side, any company I work for doesn't have to worry about licences. Win win!

    Was this a deal breaker for any company?

    I ask because the Docker Desktop paid license requirement is quite reasonable. If you have less than 250 employees and make less than $10 million in annual revenue it's free.

    If you have a dev team of 10 people and are extremely profitable to where you need licenses you'd end up paying $9 a year per developer for the license. So $90 / year for everyone, but if you have US developers your all-in payroll is probably going to be over $200,000 per developer or roughly $2 million dollars. In that context $90 is practically nothing. A single lunch for the dev team could cost almost double that.

    To me that is a bargain, you're getting an officially supported tool that "just works" on all operating systems.

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    1. k4rli ◴[] No.45138645[source]
    Docker Desktop is also (imo) useless and helps be ignorant.

    Most Mac users I see using it struggle to see the difference between "image" and "container". Complete lack of understanding.

    All the same stuff can easily be done from cli.

    replies(5): >>45138673 #>>45139738 #>>45140694 #>>45140878 #>>45141694 #
    2. j45 ◴[] No.45138673[source]
    Not everyone uses software the same way.

    Not everyone becomes a beginner to using software the same way or the one way we see.

    3. johnmaguire ◴[] No.45139738[source]
    I don't believe it's possible to run Docker on macOS without Docker Desktop (at least not without something like lima.) AFAIUI, Docker Desktop contains not just the GUI, but also the hypervisor layer. Is my understanding mistaken?
    replies(1): >>45140752 #
    4. dakiol ◴[] No.45140694[source]
    I cannot run docker in macos without docker desktop. I use the cli to manage images, containers, and everything else.
    5. cduzz ◴[] No.45140752[source]
    It's pretty easy to run docker on macos -- colima[1] is just a brew command away...

    It runs qemu under the hood if you want to run x86 (or sparc or mips!) instead of arm on a newer mac.

    [1]https://formulae.brew.sh/formula/colima

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    6. com2kid ◴[] No.45140878[source]
    > Most Mac users I see using it struggle to see the difference between "image" and "container". Complete lack of understanding.

    Because they just want their software package to run and they have been given some magic docker incantation that, if they are lucky, actually launches everything correctly.

    The first time I used Docker I had so many damn issues getting anything to work I was put off of it for a long time. Heck even now I am having issues getting GPU pass through working, but only for certain containers, other containers it is working fine for. No idea what I am even supposed to do about that particular bit of joy in my life.

    > All the same stuff can easily be done from cli.

    If a piece of technology is being forced down a user's throat, users just wants it to work and go out of their way so they can get back to doing their actual job.

    7. ◴[] No.45141694[source]
    8. lmm ◴[] No.45145901{3}[source]
    > colima[1] is just a brew command away...

    Which would be great if it worked reliably, or had any documentation at all for when it breaks. But it doesn't and it doesn't.

    replies(1): >>45150616 #
    9. cduzz ◴[] No.45150616{4}[source]
    First, I guess I'll just invoke Sturgeon's law[1] -- almost all software, especially if you don't really understand it, is crap, and probably the software you understand is also crap, you're just used to it. Good software is pretty tricky to make.

    But second -- I use colima lots, on my home macs and my work macs, and it mostly just works. The profiles stuff is kinda annoying and I find myself accidentally running arm when I want x86, or other tedious config issues crop up. But it actually has been easier to live with than docker desktop where I'd run out of space and things would fall apart.

    Docker on MacOS is broadly going work poorly relative to it on linux, just from having to run the docker stuff in a linux vm that's hiding somewhere behind the scenes.

    If you find too much friction with any of these, probably it's easier to just run a linux vm on the mac and interact with docker in the 'native' environment. I've found UTM to be quite a bit easier to live with than virtualbox.

    [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon%27s_law

    replies(1): >>45154237 #
    10. mdaniel ◴[] No.45151245{3}[source]
    As hair splitting, one can choose to use qemu or Virtualization.framework https://lima-vm.io/docs/config/vmtype/vz/ (I'm aware that's a link to Lima docs but ... <https://github.com/abiosoft/colima/blob/v0.8.4/config/config...>)
    11. lmm ◴[] No.45154237{5}[source]
    > almost all software, especially if you don't really understand it, is crap, and probably the software you understand is also crap, you're just used to it. Good software is pretty tricky to make.

    Most software has issues, but Colima is noticeably worse than most software I've used. And the complete lack of documentation is definitely not normal.