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    We should have the ability to run any code we want on hardware we own

    (hugotunius.se)
    2071 points K0nserv | 16 comments | 31 Aug 25 21:46 UTC | HN request time: 0.603s | source | bottom
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    kristov ◴[01 Sep 25 13:05 UTC] No.45092413[source]▶
    I think the conversation needs to change from "can't run software of our choice" to "can't participate in society without an apple or google account". I have been living with a de-googled android phone for a number of years, and it is getting harder and harder, while at the same time operating without certain "apps" is becoming more difficult.

    For example, by bank (abn amro) still allows online banking on desktop via a physical auth device, but they are actively pushing for login only via their app. I called their support line for a lost card, and had to go through to second level support because I didn't have the app. If they get their way, eventually an apple or google account will be mandatory to have a bank account with them.

    My kid goes to a school that outsourced all communication via an app. They have a web version, but it's barely usable. The app doesn't run without certain google libs installed. Again, to participate in school communication about my kid effectively requires an apple or google account.

    I feel like the conversation we should be having is that we are sleepwalking into a world where to participate in society you must have an account with either apple or google. If you decide you don't want a relationship with either of those companies you will be extremely disadvantaged.

    replies(33): >>45092481 #>>45092502 #>>45092525 #>>45092559 #>>45092576 #>>45092623 #>>45092669 #>>45092781 #>>45092939 #>>45092947 #>>45093038 #>>45093048 #>>45093123 #>>45093260 #>>45093421 #>>45093478 #>>45093537 #>>45093699 #>>45093704 #>>45094027 #>>45095844 #>>45096340 #>>45096654 #>>45097801 #>>45098763 #>>45099066 #>>45100986 #>>45102151 #>>45102555 #>>45103765 #>>45103863 #>>45104157 #>>45105475 #
    dataflow ◴[01 Sep 25 13:21 UTC] No.45092502[source]▶
    Can you make an argument as to how this is different from having to have an account with, say, your ISP?
    replies(6): >>45092565 #>>45092584 #>>45092828 #>>45093060 #>>45093249 #>>45094106 #
    1. Nextgrid ◴[01 Sep 25 13:30 UTC] No.45092565[source]▶
    You have many ISPs to choose from. There are not many "Googles" nor "Apples" to choose from.
    replies(3): >>45092655 #>>45092812 #>>45093046 #
    2. jader201 ◴[01 Sep 25 13:44 UTC] No.45092655[source]▶
    Depending on where you live, a lot of times you don’t many to choose from. Maybe 2-3, but sometimes only one with fast enough speeds that it becomes the only option.
    replies(3): >>45092706 #>>45093042 #>>45093809 #
    3. fsflover ◴[01 Sep 25 13:56 UTC] No.45092706[source]▶
    So they are effectively utilities and must be regulated accordingly.
    4. tqwhite ◴[01 Sep 25 14:10 UTC] No.45092812[source]▶
    I have exactly one to choose from. Two thirds of americans households have exactly two, exactly the same number as the count of googles and apples.
    replies(2): >>45092890 #>>45092953 #
    5. marcosdumay ◴[01 Sep 25 14:22 UTC] No.45092890[source]▶
    Than your region has a problem that your government should work to fix. Just like the one with Google/Apple.

    That's not a universal problem though, so random people on the internet won't relate.

    6. rahimnathwani ◴[01 Sep 25 14:32 UTC] No.45092953[source]▶
    Two thirds of Americans could connect to the internet via:

    - Starlink

    - AT&T wireless

    - T-Mobile wireless

    - Verizon wireless

    The choices of fixed ISPs is often more limited (in my area, the physical options are AT&T copper, Xfinity cable, Monkeybrains wireless).

    7. Retric ◴[01 Sep 25 14:45 UTC] No.45093042[source]▶
    Where?

    Cellphone providers + Starlink mean there’s more than 3 options in basically every US home.

    replies(1): >>45093070 #
    8. christina97 ◴[01 Sep 25 14:46 UTC] No.45093046[source]▶
    My apartment, smack bang in the middle of Manhattan, has a single coax cable opened by Spectrum, and is the only option for me to get reliable internet connection. I have no choice but to (1) sign whatever their ToS are, (2) pay whatever they want to charge, and (3) have them do what they want with my metadata. I’ve decided it’s not the hill I want to die on, but no, I don’t have many ISPs to choose from.
    replies(2): >>45093204 #>>45093229 #
    9. mothballed ◴[01 Sep 25 14:47 UTC] No.45093070{3}[source]▶
    Even in places without those, there are a ton of little hamlets in BFE around me that have one guy that gets fiber from wherever is cheapest, then runs a point-to-point directional antenna relay system to a home-brew ISP.
    10. dzikimarian ◴[01 Sep 25 15:02 UTC] No.45093204[source]▶
    You have at very least: * Mobile connection, a few carriers * Starlink/Eutelsat

    It's not perfect, but nowhere near Google/Apple duopoly. Also this is very local US issue, solvable on city level regulation, while smartphones are everywhere.

    replies(2): >>45093341 #>>45093515 #
    11. Strom ◴[01 Sep 25 15:04 UTC] No.45093229[source]▶
    Doesn’t Manhattan have radio based ISPs like 5G providers? Perhaps not ideal but far from a single ISP provider.
    12. aetherson ◴[01 Sep 25 15:13 UTC] No.45093341{3}[source]▶
    You also have the option to move. I mean, that's not ideal, obviously you don't want to have people up and change addresses to deal with a problem with a single company, but if you end up on both Google and Apple's shitlists, there's nowhere you can go to where Schmapple is a third option.
    13. cactacea ◴[01 Sep 25 15:30 UTC] No.45093515{3}[source]▶
    Starlink in an apartment in the middle of Manhattan? Suggesting Eutelsat is just funny frankly.
    replies(1): >>45094689 #
    14. account42 ◴[01 Sep 25 15:58 UTC] No.45093809[source]▶
    We're talking about participating in society not Netflix. There are a lot more options for that, including mobile and even good old dial up.
    15. dzikimarian ◴[01 Sep 25 17:24 UTC] No.45094689{4}[source]▶
    Eutelsat has pretty reasonable unlimited data package at $75/MO. Might only be available in Europe & Africa though.
    replies(1): >>45098644 #
    16. ThrowMeAway1618 ◴[02 Sep 25 02:47 UTC] No.45098644{5}[source]▶
    >Might only be available in Europe & Africa though.

    Yep. We just need to move Manhattan there. Problem solved.

    It's crazy how some people think there's no solution when the solution is "clear as an unmuddied lake...As clear as an azure sky of deepest summer."[0]

    [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Clockwork_Orange_(film)