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    462 points JumpCrisscross | 12 comments | | HN request time: 0s | source | bottom
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    Refreeze5224 ◴[] No.45079571[source]
    [flagged]
    replies(7): >>45079637 #>>45079639 #>>45079766 #>>45080078 #>>45080308 #>>45080429 #>>45083035 #
    dismalaf ◴[] No.45079639[source]
    The system that allows very wealthy to exist is also the reason the US has the highest class mobility among western nations.

    Also, on a purely pragmatic note, capital is mobile. If you penalize the rich, they just move, and then the new system will stop class mobility.

    replies(7): >>45079660 #>>45079673 #>>45079677 #>>45079769 #>>45079995 #>>45080147 #>>45081210 #
    jkestner ◴[] No.45079673[source]

      the US has the highest class mobility among western nations
    
    Source? The rankings I see have the US behind most of Europe.
    replies(3): >>45079723 #>>45079813 #>>45079999 #
    1. monero-xmr ◴[] No.45079723[source]
    The average European is poorer than the average person from Mississippi, the US’ poorest state. It isn’t even comparable
    replies(4): >>45079819 #>>45079855 #>>45080455 #>>45082952 #
    2. defrost ◴[] No.45079819[source]
    Indeed.

    The nation V. nation median ranking of class mobility is hardly the Nation V. {many nations} average of wealth.

    3. danans ◴[] No.45079855[source]
    > The average European is poorer than the average person from Mississippi, the US’ poorest state

    Mississippi has a GDP per capita of $53k.

    11% of Mississippi's population has no health insurance.

    Mississippi is one of the highest inequality states in the US. Its median income is $30k. It's Gini Index is 49%.

    It has poor physical and social infrastructure by advanced country standards.

    Spain has a GDP per capita of $35k. Its median income is $20k.

    Everyone in Spain is covered with modern healthcare.

    Spain has a nationwide high speed rail network. A lot of its infrastructure is top-notch compared to Mississippi and even wealthy parts of the US.

    This is despite Spain having some of the highest inequality in Europe, and undoubtedly a host of other problems, including decreasing affordability for average people. Yet it's inequality is far lower than Mississippi, with a 31% Gini Index.

    So perhaps GDP per capita doesn't tell the full story. Also, I'm being fair by comparing Mississippi to one of the poorer countries in Europe, not one of the middle or wealthier countries.

    replies(1): >>45080010 #
    4. monero-xmr ◴[] No.45080010[source]
    I know several Spaniards who emigrated to the US, including my sister-in-law. The situation you describe is… one of statistics and not reality
    replies(6): >>45080094 #>>45080134 #>>45080258 #>>45080336 #>>45080465 #>>45080691 #
    5. danans ◴[] No.45080094{3}[source]
    > I know several Spaniards who emigrated to the US,

    As do I. They all seem to have moved to cosmopolitan places with advanced economies, not Mississippi. I also have friends and relatives that have migrated to Spain. Overall, there is no mass migration in either direction.

    > The situation you describe is… one of statistics and not reality

    A high speed rail network and universal healthcare are not statistics, they are as real as it gets.

    But I definitely agree that Spain is probably not a good place if you want to make an absolute shitload of money.

    6. xethos ◴[] No.45080134{3}[source]
    Beyond "Statistics and anecdotes are different", there's probably some heavy selection bias presented in "Spaniards that had the wealth to emmigrate"
    7. arunabha ◴[] No.45080258{3}[source]
    Undoubtedly, but the corollary 'statistics is not reality' doesn't really hold. I'm sure people here would know many Americans who moved to Spain.

    Statistics might not be ideal, but making policy decisions based on anecdotes is far, far worse.

    8. CursedSilicon ◴[] No.45080336{3}[source]
    Why does your anecdotal evidence trump math, exactly?
    9. Insanity ◴[] No.45080455[source]
    This is an incredibly naive take in trying to postulate the US as a better place to live, and genuinely makes me curious how much you’ve actually seen of EU.

    Quality of life, by a number of metrics like HDI, is higher in (Western) European countries compared to the US. And even while total salaries might be lower, healthcare infrastructure, life expectancy, food quality etc are better.

    Pure take-home money doesn’t tell you the entire picture.

    And for pure anecdata, I have friends who migrated to the States and then moved back to EU when they had kids because EU seemed like the safer and better place to raise them.

    You can find anecdata to tell pretty much any story you want to tell though.

    10. jibal ◴[] No.45080465{3}[source]
    > The situation you describe is… one of statistics and not reality

    So you reject mathematics in favor of a few cherry-picked experiences.

    11. fcatalan ◴[] No.45080691{3}[source]
    I'm Spanish. I make about 40k/yr. I wouldn't move to the US for, say, 200k.

    I have excellent 0€ out of pocket 0 paperwork healthcare. I walk to my 35 hours per week job. I have about 50 days of vacation each year. I have a small second home down in the beach to enjoy them. In my 150k people hometown some years there is a murder or two, and most years there isn't one. When people rob a business they might threaten with a tiny Swiss Army knife, or maybe just yell very hard.

    I'll stay thanks.

    12. sensanaty ◴[] No.45082952[source]
    "Poorer" in what aspect(s), exactly? Because not everything is about gross monetary amounts when it comes to a good life. Even the poorest of the European nations (never mind that EU !== Europe, and that by invoking Europe you're also talking about the countries with the highest QoLs in the entire world like the Scandinavians) still have superior worker protections & medical infrastructure that doesn't leave the poor in generational debt than the US, which for me both rank infinitely higher than earning more money. I'm sure the poor Mississippians wouldn't mind some of those 30+ paid vacation days my Spanish friends get in exchange for earning a bit less.