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Are we decentralized yet?

(arewedecentralizedyet.online)
487 points Bogdanp | 5 comments | 30 Aug 25 19:26 UTC | HN request time: 0.001s | source
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d4mi3n ◴[30 Aug 25 19:39 UTC] No.45077410[source]▶
Neat! I'm not surprised at the findings here. BlueSky (for the average user) is pretty much a drop in replacement for Twitter.

Despite the smaller total numbers in Mastadon, it's great to see that the ecosystem seems to be successfully avoiding centralization like we've seen in the AT-Proto ecosystem.

I suspect that the cost of running AT proto servers/relays is prohibitive for smaller players compared to a Mastadon server selectively syndicating with a few peers, but I say this with only a vague understanding of the internals of both of these ecosystems.

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kyle-rb ◴[30 Aug 25 21:27 UTC] No.45078151[source]▶
Running a PDS server for yourself and a few friends is not very expensive afaik, but there's also not much benefit to doing so, because the point of the PDS is to have a clean separation between your own data and the rest of the network.

The expensive things in ATProto are the Relay (crawls/listens to PDSs to produce the firehose) and the AppView (keeps a DB of all posts/likes/etc to serve users' requests). Expensive at scale anyway; if you want your own small network for hosting non-Bluesky posts (like WhiteWind's longer character limit), the event volume will be manageable.

For a lot of stuff though ATProto is built in a way that you shouldn't have to host your own; you can implement your own algorithmic feed that reads from the Bluesky Relay's firehose, or your own frontend that still gets data from the Bluesky AppView.

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danabramov ◴[30 Aug 25 21:40 UTC] No.45078223[source]▶
Running a relay is not expensive anymore (it used to be), with recent changes it's about $30/mo. Running an AppView that ingests all ongoing Bluesky traffic (and puts it into database) is more expensive ($300/mo currently) but if you were happy with a partial view of the network, you could get it down by a lot.
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1. mxuribe ◴[30 Aug 25 22:11 UTC] No.45078439[source]▶
I'm admittedly not versed in the AT protocol, but $30/month is high for me. Something like $10/month is quite fair, and i would expect should be more than enough for a VPS to host my and 2 other members of my family for any social network service...This $10/month is overkill for other servers on the ActivityPub via say gotosocial, pleroma, etc. Not that ActivityPub is perfect or anything like that, i just mean that $30/month is not yet what i would call a sweet spot for self-hosting something...but of course, that is absolutely leagues better than any cost that the bluesky team or other bigger players would naturally have to pay for ongoing infra., etc.

Then again, i will not deny that there's also the possibility that i am simply cheap! :-)

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2. edavis ◴[30 Aug 25 22:43 UTC] No.45078619[source]▶
An important note here is the $30/mo is for the relay which is _not_ something the average user will ever need to run

Instead, you're looking for hosting a PDS which you absolutely can do for $10/mo (or less)

I run a PDS on a OVH Cloud VPS for $5/mo for myself, some alts, and some bots

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3. danabramov ◴[30 Aug 25 23:04 UTC] No.45078781[source]▶
Right, but a Relay is literally a network-wide optimization. That's why in my other comment I'm mentioning that it's hard to do apples-to-apples comparison. With Mastodon, you only have one possible role: "hosting an instance" (which is like hosting a mini-Twitter with almost no data). ATProto aims higher in terms of UX (shared world by default) so there are different distributable pieces with different incentives to run. Anyone can self-host a PDS for super cheap (which will store only your data). But running a Relay is useful as an optimization for whoever's running the actual backends. So if you're a company building on ATProto, maybe you run your own Relay just in case (or maybe you don't and reuse an existing one). Or if you're a collective of people, maybe you pool resources together to run your own independent Relay. It's not something you'd just run for yourself unless you're a huge enthusiast.
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4. mxuribe ◴[31 Aug 25 12:54 UTC] No.45082792[source]▶
Aaah, ok, thanks for the clarification!
5. mxuribe ◴[31 Aug 25 12:56 UTC] No.45082801[source]▶
Gotcha, thanks for that context!