Grok Code Fast 1

So in your view, the true victim of Elon's nazi salute was.. Elon?

How do you come to that conclusion? Because the backlash was "too much" ? He is still (one of) the richest people in the world, and controls several huuge companies. But he got his feelings hurt, I guess? And that was "too much" ?? Poor snowflake Elon.

Why does it matter to you when Netanyahu - one of the most important prime ministers and a representative of Jews - made a whole X post exonerating Elon over the salute?

> .@elonmusk is being falsely smeared.

Elon is a great friend of Israel. He visited Israel after the October 7 massacre in which Hamas terrorists committed the worst atrocity against the Jewish people since the Holocaust. He has since repeatedly and forcefully supported Israel’s right to defend itself against genocidal terrorists and regimes who seek to annihilate the one and only Jewish state.

I thank him for this.

Famously great guy that Netanyahu.

Whatever you think of him it is important that the elected representative of Jewish people exonerated him.

If it matters to you a lot, does almost all others politically-oriented people also performing that also matter a lot? (you can find even better ones ..) https://imgur.com/a/wikg2zR

"My heart goes out to you" "Taxi!" or just a "I see you guys!" can all be accompanied by a bad arm angle in hindsight. As he obviously wasn't going for that by his own words, maybe we should consider actions more important than interpreted hand movements. And Musk has been loud about AI safety since 2016, giving name, cofounding and funding OpenAI before Sam conducted a hostile takeover and made it profit-first instead of a gift for humanity.

Let's make this clear:

The Anti-Defamation League stated it wasn't a salute and that they weren't offended. Rabbi Ari Lamm wrote that Musk has repeatedly shown he's a friend to the Jewish community. David Greenfield suggested people should focus on actual antisemitism instead. Netanyahu highlighted the absurdity of the accusations and pointed to Musk's aid and engagement after the October 7th attacks.

And yes, Musk became a victim. I don't see what his current wealth has to do with it. It's hard to ignore the imbalance where one man drew the world's anger and became public enemy #1. If you call him a snowflake, I don't know what to call all those who might have been offended by his gesture

The reality is that even if he didn't do it intentionally, or did it in such a way that it could only be ambiguous (which i agree, it is) - he's 100% the type of person to lean into the controversy it creates. At that time, building favor with trump voters was good for him. Further any of your examples shown with a video and the full context would clearly not be misinterpreted. It's a full motion gesture and only video captures it unless there are swastickas and white hooded men.

He is the elected prime minister of the state of Israel. He does not represent the Jewish people. While Israel is home to the largest number of Jews on Earth, most Jews do not live in Israel. And Israel is also home to a large number non-Jews whom Netanyahu is also the prime minister of.

It is in fact important that he is not representative of Jewish people.

Netanyahu is a wanted war criminal for major crimes against humanity. Whatever he thinks should be dismissed as irrelevant.

These are caveats but doesn’t change my point in a big way.

The elected representative of the country made for Jews which is the country that has highest Jewish population and has historical ties to Judaism has exonerated Elon.

It has symbolic meaning and fretting over a salute and boycotting the company seems performative.

> While Israel is home to the largest number of Jews on Earth,

Depends on your standards for who is a Jewish person: by many standards (including those used by the Israeli Law of Return), the US has more Jewish people than Israel.

EDIT: To be clear, I am not, in noting this fact, arguing against the parent's argument that (this is a paraphrase) the opinion of the head of a state with a large Jewish population (whether or not it is actually the largest in the world) does not itself constitute the response of world Judaism, either in general or specifically as an exoneration of an alleged expression of fascist sympathies; that position is absolutely correct, irrespective of which country happens to have the largest Jewish population.

I'm not calling him a snowflake because I don't think he is a victim. You do, but since he still has everything, I thought you meant he got his feelings hurt.

When I first heard about it I thought "yeah right, media is exaggerigating again". Then I saw it, and I mean wtf!

I do not at all believe that's something you do by accident. Twice! Also, he could have excused it or try to explain afterwards. He did not. He just trolled.

> Netanyahu highlighted the absurdity of the accusations and pointed to Musk's aid and engagement after the October 7th attacks.

I think Netanyahu had a bit of a conflict of interest here--he couldn't afford to get on Trump's bad side!

If you don't think it was a nazi salute, study the video so you can reproduce the gesture exactly, then go into your work and do it in front of your manager. See what happens.

It's arguably defamatory to call people liars for pointing out the blatantly obvious, practiced-in-front-of-the-mirror, by-the-book Seig Heil[1][2].

It's another example of the 'bully lie', wherein there's absolutely no good faith debate about the point. The purpose is to test whether you will willingly swallow the lie and go along with the obvious falsehood, or you'll put yourself on the side of The Enemy.

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/gifs/comments/1i6par1/elon_musk_vs_...

[2] https://www.reddit.com/r/gifs/comments/1i7w4nz/comparison_of...

I literally saw it on video. I don't care who tells me it didn't happen, it very clearly did.

I reproduced it and nothing happened. The problem might be that I'm my own manager so need to went to the mirror and did it, but if any of my 20 employees did the same, I wouldn't take any action against them. The real reason is that I don't live in the West. Where I live, we don't suffer from the plague of misunderstood political correctness. At least not all of us yet.

That point was void to begin with. It is an appeal to authority in which the validity of the authority is on extremely shaky grounds.

> fretting over a salute and boycotting the company seems performative.

Performative actions are still actions, and sometimes deliver results. If those results are as little as make some people feel better, those are still results. That said, it is hard to be more performative than the gesture it self. So if you want to criticize HN users for being performative, you should apply the same standard to Elon Musk.

It's relevant, but it's not a winning argument. Democracy doesn't guarantee the election or ongoing approval of a person who is morally unimpeachable. If it did, Donald Trump wouldn't be president (and he's hardly the only one).

It’s not a winning argument.

Whether he's antisemitic or not doesn't change what happened / what it symbolises. We're now in a weird place where Netanyahu supporting him doesn't really make the situation any better. Jews were the convenient outgroup at the time, but don't have to be for Elon.

And the elected leader of the US was also supportive of Elon’s ‘gesture’ so I guess that settles it - Jewish people worldwide, as embodied through the representative voices of their elected leaders, must agree that it was not a Nazi salute. And that firmly settles it because nobody else gets to have any opinion about it because Nazis never bothered anyone else.

/s, just in case.

> he's a friend to the Jewish community

So? Does that means nobody else is allowed to have an opinion about the salute that he made. Sure he's pro Israel, that's not uncommon at all amongst the far right these days.

> who might have been offended by his gesture

What about the people who seem to be highly offended by people who have been offended by his gesture. What do you call them?

Funny some people still believe this non sense nowadays with all the information available. I hope you manage to get out of your echo chamber one day. Peace.

> but if any of my 20 employees did the same

You could all then march around the office or even out on the street with your hands raised. Surely nobody but snowflakes could be offended by that.

> a representative of Jews

So if a Trump made a Twitter post "exonerating" someone who said something awful about America that would be the same? Because he represents 100% of the country.

Almost half of the countries hates Netanyahu and he's only in charge because of the support from far-right.

Regardless of this you think that a certain limited subsection of Israeli population who share Netanyahu and not the millions of Israeli's who don't let alone all the people who are Jewish are not allowed to have an opinion about his actions? Rather a silly thing to say.

This story about him made my blood boil

https://www.propublica.org/article/doge-musk-mohammad-halimi...

All in service to a role that he took to ingratiate himself to a head of state and ended up completely alienated from leaving a wake of destruction behind him for absolutely no purpose.

Everyone should be free to have whatever opinion they like, or at least, they ought to be. The difference is this, some try to impose their opinions on society, while the rest couldn’t care less and refuse to lose sleep over it. The ability to mind our own business is a virtue, a real one. The world went downhill the moment people started obsessing over others instead of focusing on themselves. And anyone who truly cares about society’s well-being should stop meddling.

> The elected representative of the country made

Elected by 23.41%? What about the remaining 76.50%? Also 30% didn't even vote.

Also what about the president of Poland and other victims of the nazis? Did they "exonerate" him?

Of course to be fair its hard to blame a drug addict who seemingly lacks self control for his erratic public behavior.

> seems performative

If those people stop buying Tesla's cars and that hurts its share price its not performative anymore.

I‘m thinking further about this argument, and it makes even less sense. Judaism doesn’t have a single spiritual leader like Catholicism or Tibetan Buddhism (the Pope and the Dalai Lama respectively). This is like saying that anti-Tibetan racism can be absolved if Yan Jinhai (the chairman of Tibet Autonomous region) or Gombojavyn Zandanshatar (the prime minister of Mongolia) has said nice things about the racist because most Tibetan Buddhists live in Tibet or Mongolia.

Can you objectively prove that? I've tried several times with Gemini 2.5 using heavily biased prompts.

> The difference is this, some try to impose their opinions on society

So literally Musk and his pals?

> society’s well-being should stop meddling.

So again, Musk et al.? I'm really confused... what are you trying to say. That only some people are allowed to meddle while everyone else should shut up and mind their own business? How do you determine that? Wealth? Political opinions? Class? Race?

GP is referring to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-VfYjPzj1Xw

Holy moly, Elon does read HN!

In what world could using Gemini 2.5 with any sort of a prompt objectively prove anything? We might be entering a wholly new epistemological crisis if this question means what it implies.

He remains one of the richest people on earth because he obviously didn't perform a Nazi salute. He was extending his heart to the crowd, and the gesture he made is something every major politician has done on camera, because it's a motion one naturally makes when in front of a crowd.

Besides, why would the richest man on earth copy a bunch of 1940's socialists who previously socialized their car industry?

What is your stand ơn using Chinese models? They censor Tiananmen Square protests, they censor Tibet ethnic cleansing, they censor any opinion against China’s role in Khmer Rouge’s mass killings. Do you boycott DeepSeek or Qwen? Or you consider those actions not evil enough compared to Elon’s?

> The world went downhill the moment people started obsessing over others instead of focusing on themselves.

Gosh yeah, all that... getting rid of slavery, and women's rights, and disability support and awareness... Truly, the world is far better off!

You saw what you wanted to see.

You're just going to totally ignore the "My heart goes out to you guys"? with his palm in his chest?

I've seen behavior of a lot of people akin to someone would pejoratively refer to as "MAGA Types" / common conservatives. The absolute majority of them aren't welcoming of so deep /pol/ 4chan meme politicking or signaling. They likely won't take it too seriously, but they sure as hell won't cozy up to it.

When this happened there was no live reaction because people didn't interpret this as such. This has only became a thing later. And he did not even acknowledge the crazy accusations of him having intendedly done a salute, he did not "lean in to it". What on earth would he even gain from that?!

I don’t see even entertaining the idea of ‘he did it intentionally’ meaning if he "intentionally did a n** salute" as sincere. That’s just a painted-by-bias angle to come from, trying to move goal posts. Better be wary of the people who would instead engage in that.

No, it's evidence that you twisted the truth to exaggerate the authority of your argument. It was a blatant attempt to inflate weak rhetoric that you had to know wouldn't pass in an educated audience. Otherwise you wouldn't have had to produce such a base lie.

This was swiftly refuted by tons of people who know who little Bibi is, including many Jews and Israelis who absolutely detest everything he has done and stands for. There are orthodox, mystic and progressive Jews alike who are all calling for his head as we speak. If you actually believe that he represents all Jews, then you lack the education to speak on any Jew but your own.

How in the world is that a seen as nazi salute? These people are absolutely derranged.

Lmfao. The degree to which you all resist understanding is unbelievable. Did you say the same thing when liberals did the salute?

You could completely ignore that incident and find 10 other reasons not to support this company or the man behind it. Calling a cave diver that rescued multiple children a pedophile should be reason enough for you. Here he is saying Jews are against whites. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/elon-musk-antisemitic-comments-...

Instead you have chosen to actively support him, harming us, out of spite due to a situation you've willingly blinded yourself to. Seriously? You're citing the ADL? That's like asking the NAACP whether Kanye really said "I love Hitler." Who gives a fuck, I have ears.

You can always pick and choose Jewish people who are friends to antisemites.

Pffft. Nobody wanted to see that, but he did it anyway.

> The world went downhill the moment people started obsessing over others instead of focusing on themselves. And anyone who truly cares about society’s well-being should stop meddling.

The problem is, meddling to interfere with others, and meddling to stop that interference, are not morally equivalent.

If a serial killer is trying to strangle me, and I'm fighting back, you wouldn't deplore "the violence on both sides", would you?

Lol. Did you even watch the video?

Most politicians just lift their arms up and wave like ordinary people. Musk first placed his hand on his heart, and then extended out forcefully in a clear nazi salute.

What's truly performative is the likes of the ADL and Netanyahu covering for Musk's nazi salute.

Their morally bankrupt calculus is that as long as Musk is an Israeli ally, they'll overlook the obvious. In a sad irony, this makes it more dangerous for the rest of us in the diaspora.

Calling the Nazis socialist is insidious and ahistorical.

The Nazis murdered any socialists they could get their hands on.

Exactly. It’s so obvious that Musk didn’t do a Nazi salute that I can’t believe that anyone who considers themselves to be a serious person would still be pushing that. There’s no way that someone can watch the video of that situation and come to a good-faith conclusion that that’s what he was doing.

If the standard is that low, I could easily produce a compilation video of the likes of Obama, Biden, Harris in compromising positions appearing to show them doing things that they obviously weren’t doing.

Partisanship has turned everyone into dishonest and uncharitable actors, and it’s so unfortunate.

> he's 100% the type of person to lean into the controversy it creates

Except, objectively speaking, he actually did NOT do that. He basically just ignored the “controversy” because it was such an obviously false narrative meant only to smear him that I’m sure he had enough faith in most Americans who aren’t consumed by partisanship to see it exactly for what it was.

> At that time, building favor with trump voters was good for him.

Your implication here seems to be that Trump voters, en masse, want folks who are doing Nazi salutes, or am I misunderstanding you?

Yes, seeing someone on the spectrum (who’s got no political gesture training) spaz out on stage is incredibly cringy. Nobody wanted to see that.

But plenty of people apparently wanted to see a “not see” salute to confirm their existing political biases and other beliefs no matter the actual intent and context.

Taking a break from Reddit and X and touching some grass generally resolves this self-inflicted mental funk.

Also just bad faith comments muddying the waters. The evidence has been abundantly available to any inquisitive minds to find out for themselves Musk's worldview, goals and especially his methods, the simpler explanation is they are merely following his example of corrupting online discussions with low effort rhetorical bait, whether they are aware of the imitation or not. The net is flooded with many such clones.

Those censorships are government enforced and don't necessarily allow conclusions about how the company developing the models thinks they are just following local laws. If anthropic was a Chinese company Claude would do the same.

Do I think it's problematic? Yes, but I don't blame the company or their leadership for it. For grok and xai you can very much be skeptical about the team behind it for it's actions

Right. I don’t know why people call nazis socialists just because they supported a state led by government, socialized government program take over like healthcare and education and production, and they have socialist in their name.

I can see how it is easy to confuse by let’s be reasonable. The nazis could not have been socialist because that would mean a corruption one time of a system that is based on ideals.

Well, ya got me. You managed to find the one rare manager who either 1. cannot recognize a clear nazi salute, or 2. considers it to be acceptable behavior. I guess I'm wrong.

No they didn’t, they were the prevailing socialist party. They imprisoned party members who didn’t play ball with them but they were the socialist.

How could you not know the Nazi’s were socialists? That was their whole thing, socialism would only work in a culturally/ethnically homogeneous society

Gemini has a comprehensive ability to analyze video clips and offer an objective reality that circumvents viewer bias.

> Your implication here seems to be that Trump voters, en masse, want folks who are doing Nazi salutes, or am I misunderstanding you?

I think he believes that the subsection of bigotted voters deserve acknowledgement from time to time and that he has a history of such behavior.

That is certainly an interesting discussion we might have some day. But we are not discussing Chinese models today. Whataboutism kills rational discourse: any discussion can be derailed by asking "but what about…".

It is very clear what it is. A nazi salute is not performed "accidentally". Especially not in front of thousands of people. This is no laughing matter: millions of people were killed by people performing that salute.

And if anybody has any doubt, it's enough to listen to the guy, and his support for extreme-right.