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295 points AndrewDucker | 2 comments | | HN request time: 0.449s | source
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BrenBarn ◴[] No.45048272[source]
Our legal system is a shambles that is clearly not prepared to handle this kind of thing, even setting aside the situation with the supreme court. It's become clear that the "shadow law" of simply passing unconstitutional statutes, filing frivilous lawsuits, etc., is operating independently of the real legal system moves too slowly and does not have adequate mechanisms to prevent what is essentially a DDoS attack. All justice is delayed and so all justice is denied.
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eviks ◴[] No.45049638[source]
> passing unconstitutional statutes > independently of the real legal system

The former is literally the real legal system, nothing shadow about it. Shadow would be some hidden deal to drop charges or something.

It's also not DDOS when a huge part of what you call "real" is exactly the same, so not unwillingly overloaded but willingly complicit.

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dudefeliciano ◴[] No.45049939[source]
the real legal system is slow by design, to carefully review cases and ensure fairness. It should also be based on good faith. The vulnerability comes from one bad faith party flooding the system with bad faith cases and appeals (as trump is doing). Even when he fails, the process becomes the punishment for the opposing side (journalists, political opponents...). When he wins, he wins.
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rayiner ◴[] No.45053170[source]
> flooding the system with bad faith cases and appeals (as trump is doing).

Trump is winning most of these fights in the appellate courts and the Supreme Court. Activist groups are flooding the system with a bunch of weak cases, getting weak, poorly reasoned district court rulings, then getting overturned on appeal.

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brendoelfrendo ◴[] No.45053574[source]
I feel like you're unfamiliar with the Supreme Court rulings, which are almost unilaterally terrible. The Court has made some very torturous interpretations of procedure and precedent to justify rubber-stamping operations that even the conservative justices will admit are unconstitutional, preferring to instead punt the issue and allow the harm to continue, completely circumventing the merits of the cases. Several of the recent shadow docket decisions regarding injunctions have brought up the equities of the suits in question, making the bizarre claim that enjoining the Executive Branch from doing whatever it wants pending a full trial harms it in greater proportion than the harms being actually inflicted on ordinary people.

> Activist groups are flooding the system with a bunch of weak cases, getting weak, poorly reasoned district court rulings, then getting overturned on appeal.

Trump's > 90% success rate at the Supreme Court should be read as an indictment of the Supreme Court, not of the lower courts.

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1. rayiner ◴[] No.45058275[source]
> I feel like you're unfamiliar with the Supreme Court rulings, which are almost unilaterally terrible.

On the law, the rulings are correct. Article II, Section 2, cl. 1: "The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America." QED. The contrary "precedents" were ginned up to support Woodrow Wilson's racist fever-dream of an executive run by "expert" civil servants instead of the elected President: https://ballotpedia.org/%22The_Study_of_Administration%22_by.... I remember sitting in Con Law class and reading these cases thinking how obviously wrong they all were. I couldn't even dream that we would ever be able to clean out this horse stable!

> preferring to instead punt the issue and allow the harm to continue, completely circumventing the merits of the cases.

That's because almost all of the rulings coming up to the Supreme Court were preliminary injunctions where the lower court made no determination of the merits.

> making the bizarre claim that enjoining the Executive Branch from doing whatever it wants pending a full trial harms it in greater proportion than the harms being actually inflicted on ordinary people.

Read Marbury v. Madison and look at how much ink Justice Marshall spends trying to avoid enjoining the Secretary of State to do something as ministerial as delivering an already-signed letter. He literally invented judicial review in an effort to avoid that result. Think about how Marshall's lengthy analysis of how courts can't enjoin discretionary actions of the President would apply to the sweeping injunctions being handed out these days.

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2. ilove196884 ◴[] No.45062915[source]
So according to you any country with a strong civil service is racist. Maybe you are unfamiliar with modern governance or norms.