Most active commenters
  • bawolff(4)

←back to thread

152 points xqcgrek2 | 27 comments | | HN request time: 1.057s | source | bottom
1. iandanforth ◴[] No.45043708[source]
This is McCarthyism. You take a polarizing word, then you attack your enemies by claiming they are that thing, and couch the whole thing in an "investigation" whose outcome is predetermined.

There is no merit to discussing if the target is that thing, it doesn't matter. It's an ideological attack. If you take it on its face then the attackers win because you're treating them as if they were honest participants in a discussion, which they are not.

And remember even if the investigation (which is a farce) goes nowhere, allowing it to exist unchallenged means that some people are going to be harassed and intimidated. But, that too is the point, fear is what they want.

replies(9): >>45043799 #>>45043943 #>>45044019 #>>45044141 #>>45044186 #>>45044853 #>>45045770 #>>45047416 #>>45047503 #
2. bix6 ◴[] No.45043799[source]
Preach. How much time and money will Wikipedia have to waste defending this?

Don’t these people have anything better to do? Like lowering prices for everyday Americans instead of running up baseless legal bills?

replies(2): >>45043827 #>>45045267 #
3. tovej ◴[] No.45043943[source]
Definitely McCarthyism, or possibly a slippery slide towards something worse. These attacks on free speech are much more brazen than I expected.
4. mbeavitt ◴[] No.45043970{3}[source]
what evidence do you have to back up this baseless claim? They openly publish their financial reports: https://wikimediafoundation.org/who-we-are/financial-reports

$178 million might sound like an extremely large amount of money if you're a member of the general public, but for a global resource kept up to date that serves hundreds of billions of visitors per year this is actually not a huge quantity of money.

replies(2): >>45045027 #>>45046783 #
5. creativenolo ◴[] No.45044007{3}[source]
I’m not following this comment. Yes, it’s a true statement. But do you mean it changes the situation? Should your comment be read as support for them spending their money sourced through donations to defend the accusations?
6. stego-tech ◴[] No.45044019[source]
That’s the point of all this polarization: the era of mass dissemination of information revealed the horrors, mistakes, and transgressions of past regimes and histories that some parties would rather not be widely publicized. The result is a group who wishes to reauthor facts and data to fit their narrative, and the rest who want to act on quality data in good confidence.

It’s not a partisan fight, it’s a fight over whether or not nations, parties, or groups have a right to re-author reality through data to fit their desires.

replies(1): >>45045867 #
7. janice1999 ◴[] No.45044186[source]
> This is McCarthyism.

Roy Cohn was Trump's mentor after all.

8. mcphage ◴[] No.45044272[source]
> This also ties into what DOGE kept finding.

DOGE wasted billions of dollars and failed.

9. blitzar ◴[] No.45044853[source]
In the US, free speech, I fear, is in retreat.
10. guywithahat ◴[] No.45045027{4}[source]
I don't work for wikipedia and haven't seen their budget in depth, but the link is mostly fluff. Reading it I have no idea if "support for volunteers" means supporting wikipedia editors, corporate, donations, etc. All we really know is that hosting costs are about 3.1 million a year.

Usually non-profit organizations like this get significant corporate funding because they do work for companies and political organizations, which is where the corruption comes from. I don't think there's any doubt Wikipedia is a politically biased organization, all you have to do is look at their URL blacklists to figure that out. The NYT is regarded as a high quality link, meanwhile you're not even allowed to link the epoch times as a reference despite it being the most comparable right-wing competitor to the NYT. Basically every major right-wing paper is banned, while every major left-wing paper is allowed

replies(1): >>45045239 #
11. bawolff ◴[] No.45045239{5}[source]
> Reading it I have no idea if "support for volunteers" means supporting wikipedia editors, corporate, donations

I think its pretty clear that "support for volunteers" does not mean corporate.

I too would like more detailed budgets, but we do have some info here.

> Usually non-profit organizations like this get significant corporate funding because they do work for companies and political organizations

The list of large donors is public https://wikimediafoundation.org/annualreports/2023-2024-annu... there are only 27 who gave > $50000. Which ones do you think Wikipedia is giving biased coverage to?

I'd also point out that there is a wall of separation between editors and the foundation.

> all you have to do is look at their URL blacklists to figure that out. The NYT is regarded as a high quality link, meanwhile you're not even allowed to link the epoch times as a reference despite it being the most comparable right-wing competitor to the NYT. Basically every major right-wing paper is banned, while every major left-wing paper is allowed

Discussion about epoch times at: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Not... my understanding is the concern is around them promoting conspiracy theories without evidence not their political alignment.

replies(1): >>45046829 #
12. bawolff ◴[] No.45045267[source]
From what I understand this is just a "polite" request, not a supeona, so Wikipedia can ignore it if they want.
replies(1): >>45045710 #
13. bix6 ◴[] No.45045710{3}[source]
You can just ignore congress?
replies(2): >>45045995 #>>45046001 #
14. throw0101c ◴[] No.45045770[source]
> This is McCarthyism.

You say this like it's a bad thing, and some think it would be a good thing:

> “Joseph McCarthy was right,” Loomer responded without missing a beat. “We need to make McCarthy great again.”

* https://archive.ph/https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/arch...

> During the second presidency of Donald Trump, Loomer emerged as an influential actor, using her social media platform to call for the firing of officials she deems insufficiently loyal to Trump. In early April 2025, reports emerged that Loomer influenced President Trump to dismiss more than half a dozen national security officials due to her suspicions of their disloyalty to him and advocated for additional firings.[13]

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laura_Loomer

replies(1): >>45047969 #
15. butlike ◴[] No.45045867[source]
Game theory would say that if you're looking to move the overton window, anything less than max would be a missplay. That is to say, anything except total polarization would fail to move the overton window the max amount in any given direction, since with max polarization, the possibility exists to move it the full amount, whereas a more nuanced claim that moved it only a little bit would only ever move it 'that little bit.'
16. throwaway-11-1 ◴[] No.45045949[source]
your accusations of progressives is basically describing actual christian americans
17. bawolff ◴[] No.45045995{4}[source]
If they are just asking nicely, yes (although there are probably political ramifications). If its an actual demand then no.

I imagine the way it normal goes is first they ask nicely and if you say no then they formally supeona you.

18. Freedom2 ◴[] No.45046001{4}[source]
Depends if you're the president.
replies(1): >>45046445 #
19. EGreg ◴[] No.45046445{5}[source]
Yup

https://thehill.com/policy/national-security/575819-trump-ad...

20. aeternum ◴[] No.45046783{4}[source]
https://wikimediafoundation.org/annualreports/2023-2024-annu...

They spend only $3mil on internet hosting. They spent almost 6 mil on travel and conferences, and 26 mil on awards and grants.

They could easily run all wikimedia hosting on investment income (endowment) alone so the banner that often pleads for donations to keep wikipedia running is pretty scammy.

21. aeternum ◴[] No.45046829{6}[source]
>my understanding is the concern is around them promoting conspiracy theories without evidence not their political alignment.

That might be their justification but is it actually true?

Specifically: Do you believe that every major right-wing paper promotes conspiracy theories while every major left-wing paper does not?

replies(1): >>45048442 #
22. deepfriedchokes ◴[] No.45047416[source]
Ideological suggests they have ideals, and values, but I think it’s simpler than that: This is about power and submission.

All of Trump’s seemingly irrational decisions are his emotionally rational pursuit of forcing people to submit, just like his dad did to him [0]. Like a lot of boomers scarred by untreated trauma, that’s what he understands respect to be: submission. It was wrong then, and wrong now, but attacking Trump, while intuitive, is the wrong way to engage him.

[0] https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jul/07/donald-trump...

23. onetimeusename ◴[] No.45047503[source]
Why do you say that? What makes you say this is McCarthyism which was an accusation made against people in the House? I read the article and it says they are opening a probe into foreign influence peddling and people receiving taxpayer funding to do influence peddling and they asked for information from the CEO of the Wikimedia Foundation. You might disagree those are worth investigating but that sounds a lot more reasonable than McCarthyism. The headline makes it seem like they are simply just investigating bias.
replies(1): >>45047672 #
24. cherry_tree ◴[] No.45047672[source]
What do you think McCarthyism is?
25. dazed_confused ◴[] No.45047969[source]
It is a bad thing and anyone who thinks otherwise is acting in bad faith.
26. bawolff ◴[] No.45048442{7}[source]
I would disagree with your premise that every major right wing paper is listed.

For example fox news and the Washington Examiner are considered right wing and are not listed as a deprecated source.

Similarly there are left wing sources on the deprecated list like the grayzone or Occupy Democrats. (Arguably those are rather fringe)

Certainly the epoch times has been widely criticized for being factually inaccurate in ways the new york times has not been.

I also don't particularly think the new york times is equivalent to the epoch times in terms of reputation.

replies(1): >>45048687 #
27. dlubarov ◴[] No.45048687{8}[source]
Fox News was deemed "generally unreliable" for politics and science, which in practice means that it's unusable in most cases, not so different from deprecated.

I also find it interesting that Al-Manar (essentially Hezbollah's media office) has a slightly better status than, say, Daily Mail.

See also (Wikipedia cofounder) Larry Sanger's critique of Wikipedia' source bias - https://larrysanger.org/2021/06/wikipedia-is-more-one-sided-...