Word documents will be saved to the cloud automatically on Windows going forward

It's even simpler.

People who wanted that kind of treatment and walled garden already moved to apple's ecosystem, and people who do not want this stayed with windows.

Now more and more of my non-technical friends are moving towards linux because microsoft is pushing them away.

I think the main competitor for Microsoft Office is Google, which indeed defaults to saving documents in the cloud.

Apple, as far as i know, still gives you a choice.

I've no idea what you mean by "walled garden" w/r/t MacOS, but I understand it's an article of faith on HN.

Again, for the Nth time, you can run any software you like on a Mac. You can do anything you want. App store? Of course. Direct vendor download? You bet. Build from source? No problem.

Further, this line is out of place here because Microsoft is FAR more invasive about pushing cloud-first storage than Apple has ever been. No app on my Mac default to saving to iCloud. NONE.

> People who wanted that kind of treatment and walled garden already moved to apple's ecosystem, and people who do not want this stayed with windows.

Probably mostly applicable to people who know about "ecosystems", rather than normies who view computers mostly as another type of hammer (a tool).

You can do whatever you want inside the garden, but moving away from it is becoming increasingly harder and harder - hence walled garden.

you can't bring your software with you, you can't bring your licenses with you, and all services are available only inside it.

Direct vendor download? Sure, as long as it’s signed with an attestation key that’s countersigned by Apple. Running an app not signed this way is definitely possible, but requires invoking a hidden menu and then still has startup delay as the attestation check fails.

Not sure why you're being downvoted but this is exactly it.

You're forced by what's given to you and can only use within the garden on only the device you own.

Different platforms have always had this property. Was VAX/VMS a walled garden because you had to replace software switching to BSD?

Do not decry the value of a hammer. There are more specialized tools, and they have their place. A shared property we value is that you can put the hammer down, and it stays a hammer. It doesn't Develop Ideas about spying on you, it doesn't pivot to being an awl, the handle doesn't spontaneously fall off, you don't have to re-learn how to hammer things.

I have to re-learn how to use software very regularly, and as more and more things become software I have lost some functional skills because there are only 24 hours in a day and I can't stay current on everything. If I haven't done a thing in six years, it means I need to research what the current software tool for doing that thing is, try installing four of those things and land on the one that isn't broken or some type of malware, and then teach myself an entirely new interface over time. I just wanted to hit a nail! My hammer was installed on my old computer! I knew that hammer!

But no, it's never that simple with software. I can learn 150 software tools to do specific things and have to re-learn something every week just to maintain capability. I don't have to do that with hammers, wrenches, saws, etc.

We need more hammer-like tools instead of managed, constantly updated "ecosystems", and when we do find a good one, we need a way to keep it. Because we have finite time and cognitive bandwidth.

"That was deprecated three years ago, why are you still trying to use an old version that doesn't even have security updates? What is wrong with you?! [WONTFIX]"... Fuck you, give me back my fucking hammer. I could do this task I'm trying to do in literally 90 seconds ten years ago; I'm an hour deep into determining how you would even begin to do it today.

I mean, by that standard Linux is a walled garden, because you probably can't take all your apps and data with you to another system without significant overhead.

I'm no spring chicken. I've had painful migrations. I'm not interested in tools that don't have an exit. Nothing about a normal Mac setup is locked-in. I could migrate my data to Linux, I expect, with minimal hassle. I mean, I wouldn't, because I enjoy the network effects of using the Apple ecosystem, and I find MacOS more pleasing to interact with than any Linux window manager I've yet seen. But it's absolutely possible for me to leave, and simple to do so.

There's no lock in.

HN as always drastically overstates how hard it is to run non-AppStore software.

Yes, the Mac defaults to a stricter policy than most HN readers would want. Mass market computers SHOULD. That they don't is a reason we have so much malware on the Aunt Millie PCs of the world.

HN readers are more technical. We want to do what we want to do, but we have to understand that what WE want isn't what's right for the average user. As long as a platform gives us a path to download a random utility from a buddy's site or whatever, it's fine.

It's very, very easy to set a Mac to run whatever you want. Nothing is hidden about it. Is it different than it was under Sonoma? Yes, but the changes are well documented and there are countless articles online, including at Apple, that explain the trivial steps required.

Lol what a shit take

Pages and the rest of the iWork suite save to iCloud by default.

Both Apple and Microsoft give you the choice of where you want to save.

Truly, your analysis and rhetorical skill dazzle us all.

> That they don't is a reason we have so much malware on the Aunt Millie PCs of the world.

Please, tell us more. Or are you talking about the OS that run on Aunt Millie PC ? That makes sense.