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600 points antirez | 4 comments | | HN request time: 0.478s | source
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dakiol ◴[] No.44625484[source]
> Gemini 2.5 PRO | Claude Opus 4

Whether it's vibe coding, agentic coding, or copy pasting from the web interface to your editor, it's still sad to see the normalization of private (i.e., paid) LLM models. I like the progress that LLMs introduce and I see them as a powerful tool, but I cannot understand how programmers (whether complete nobodies or popular figures) dont mind adding a strong dependency on a third party in order to keep programming. Programming used to be (and still is, to a large extent) an activity that can be done with open and free tools. I am afraid that in a few years, that will no longer be possible (as in most programmers will be so tied to a paid LLM, that not using them would be like not using an IDE or vim nowadays), since everyone is using private LLMs. The excuse "but you earn six figures, what' $200/month to you?" doesn't really capture the issue here.

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azan_ ◴[] No.44625521[source]
Paid models are just much, much better.
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dakiol ◴[] No.44625590[source]
Of course they are. I wouldn't expect otherwise :)

But the price we're paying (and I don't mean money) is very high, imho. We all talk about how good engineers write code that depends on high-level abstractions instead of low-level details, allowing us to replace third party dependencies easily and test our apps more effectively, keeping the core of our domain "pure". Well, isn't it time we started doing the same with LLMs? I'm not talking about MCP, but rather an open source tool that can plug into either free and open source LLMs or private ones. That would at least allow us to switch to a free and opensource version if the companies behind the private LLMs go rogue. I'm afraid tho that wouldn't be enough, but it's a starting point.

To put an example: what would you think if you need to pay for every single Linux process in your machine? Or for every Git commit you make? Or for every debugging session you perform?

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azan_ ◴[] No.44625622[source]
> I'm not talking about MCP, but rather an open source tool that can plug into either free and open source LLMs or private ones. That would at least allow us to switch to a free and opensource version if the companies behind the private LLMs go rogue. I'm afraid tho that wouldn't be enough, but it's a starting point.

There are open source tools that do exactly that already.

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1. dakiol ◴[] No.44625648[source]
Ah, well that's nice. But every single post I read don't mention them? So, I assume they are not popular for some reason. Again, my main point here is: the normalization of using private LLMs. I don't see anyone talking about it; we are all just handing over a huge part of what it means to build software to a couple of enterprises whose goal is, of course, to maximize profit. So, yeah, perhaps I'm overthinking I don't know; I just don't like that now these companies are so ingrained in the act of building software (just like AWS is so ingrained in the act of running software)
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2. rahimnathwani ◴[] No.44625725[source]

  But every single post I read don't mention them?
Why would they?

Does every single post about a Jetbrains feature mention that you can easily switch from Jetbrains to an open source editor like VS Code or vim?

3. ◴[] No.44625808[source]
4. Arainach ◴[] No.44627019[source]
>every single post I read don't mention them

Because the models are so much worse that people aren't using them.

Philosophical battles don't pay the bills and for most of us they aren't fun.

There have been periods of my life where I stubbornly persisted using something inferior for various reasons - maybe I was passionate about it, maybe I wanted it to exist and was willing to spend my time debugging and offer feedback - but there a finite number of hours in my life and often I'd much rather pay for something that works well than throw my heart, soul, time, and blood pressure at something that will only give me pain.